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[lordvader129]

QUOTE(Movax @ Jul 27 2008, 08:26 PM)

As was said, we are in a global economy now. You really think it would be that difficult to trade in gold, in whatever form, for some inflated cash so you could go buy some bread?

since the dollar is backed by the us economy/GDP for the dollar to be devalued to nil gdp would have to drop from 13 trillion to 0, meaning there would be no industry, not business, no nothinbg in the united states, so no reason for anyone to come here to trade, effectively cutting us off from the rest of the global economy

of course this discussion is silly, as your predictions are all but impossible, and were clearly hyperbole (we would likely switch from a fiat system back to a gold standard if economic value dropped below 300 billion) but you havent stated that they are hyperbole so ill keep pressing the issue  

[Movax]

I don't understand how the dollar can be valued in a government statistic. You don't think there would be a conflict of interest there?

The dollar is valued by what the rest of the world thinks it is worth: http://www.marketwatch.com/quotes/dxy

Why is what I am saying impossible? I never claimed the dollar would inflate to nothing. Of course at some point something would be done (Amero..?).

[lordvader129]

QUOTE

I never claimed the dollar would inflate to nothing.

QUOTE(Movax @ Jul 8 2008, 11:39 AM)

 It will continue to plummet towards zero in the next few years.

^^

[Movax]

Towards. Hmm.. I never said it would make it there. I don't know how low it would have to go before a new currency would have to be introduced. I doubt it could, and hope it doesn't get as bad as Zimbabwe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwean_dollar

This post has been edited by Movax: Jul 28 2008, 11:48 PM

[lordvader129]

QUOTE(Movax @ Jul 28 2008, 03:07 PM)

Towards. Hmm.. I never said it would make it there. I don't know how low it would have to go before a new currency would have to be introduced. I doubt it could, and hope it doesn't get as bad as Zimbabwe.

http://en.wikipedia....mbabwean_dollar

is there some other direction something can plummet that you had to add "towards zero" lol

[melongstrike]

I find it extremely disturbing that we are even having this conversation. But we are here now so I guess we will deal with it.

Before anything, I remember years ago when I learned the Fed wasn't really part of the US. Nor was it regulated or overseen by an additional entity. I had an idea to write a movie script about the fall of the U.S. and the feds role maybe 6 years ago but didn't have enough info about the fed to do it (side note: I guess some big time writer will cash in)

Since the bailout passed and many predict this move will offer life support for approx 2-3years if that; but ultimately lead to the collapse of the dollar. I am still torn as to what precautions to take.

My 30k investment already took a 7k hit. I can completely withdraw all money and just keep the cash on hand so when things come back to normal I won't lose any physical money only value till things balances out again. Additionally I was contemplating investing my money in the yen or euro.

My girl wants to take the $ we have and move to another country.

I am a firefighter so I know our work will be required but if the value of the dollar goes down the toilet and employers are unable to pay employees what will be the state of our public servant services.

Although we normally attempt to live beneath our means we have already started trimming the fat around our lives trying to become leaner, in addition to planting trees, plants, herbs, we can grow and sell.

Though we have cut back spending there still remains 2 big purchases to make which includes firearms (pistol for the fiance and a shot gun for me) with 2 bullet proof guns.

Take care everyone, protect your family and loved ones. I am sure we will survive whatever is thrown at us but in what condition I don't know.

Your concerns, criticisms, comments are welcomed

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

Many people  saw this coming years back thru a combination of the predatory credit card industry / and the whole arm subprime mortgage mess and just different prophets. Movax you know we discussed this a while back in one of your older threads and I also posted a thread linked to Thomas Gibson talking about a economy crash then ww3 http://www.telusplan...arnamerica.html.

I honestly believe what people should be doing now is two things.

Buying extra Food say3 to 6 months. (The web bot project has talked about this collapse since the beginning of this year and other people Ie Gibson longer. ) People should be buying food and any other extra supplies they will need for 6 months.  Many different things could make this global economic meltdown much worse say war with Iran disrupting the oil markets. Or a derrivitives market implode or the LIBOR spirialing out of control just to name a few.

The other thing people should do is study history and learn about the collapse of empires or the temporary weakening of them read up on the great depression learn about cycles in civilization. Also look at what usually comes before collapses or restructuring of empires. The cycle we are in right now will most likely continue to get worse and I dont mean just economic I mean the nation as a whole. One of the things that annoys me is God is NOT republican or democratic and voting for a canidate IE  will not make you a better Christian. God has levels with which he deals with people and nations 1favor 2mercy 3judgement 4wrath. Highest is favor.  Least is wrath. Voting in a president will not fix everything. So people need to really start praying and asking God for help and stop calling people pagans for voting for democrats cause NEITHER party will fix our country unless we having blessing. Stop pointing the finger at others and see if you are doing all you can to petition God for help for country, helping people in your community and spread message of forgiveness of sins.

But anyway people should be storing up food. Back in the day IE 1800s people were more self reliant Ie the frontierspeople. When the technology craps out probablly late next year as different people have had visions of an russian missle sub emp attack at start of ww3 there wont be any more cell pc etc. Watch the movie broken arrow and search youtube for emp. If the emp is strong enough it will blow the diodes in all the electronics within its range.  This would make sophisticated electronics worthless.I know for myself growing up most of my life in suburbia I am trying to learn things from my cousins on being more self reliant as they have lived in the country most of their lives. But yeah dont panic use wisdom and prepare and if you dont end up needing food you can eat it over time saving on food bills but I recommend you check out both thomas gibson prophecy and webbot since both say some stuff is coming.

[Movax]

Sorry, I've been busy.. lost touch with this site, not on purpose.

Things are getting worse, obviously!

There is always a bigger picture.. in the media, in things we take for granted..

This crash is just beginning.

Disclaimer - I don't pretend to know everything. This is my opinion, and what I believe after looking at the facts. I might be completely wrong! But:

If you have savings of any kind, protect yourself now with investments in gold and silver. They are the only thing that will guarantee some form of safety. Gold as dropped in price since I started this thread, but not nearly as much as the markets, or other commodiites (example oil) and gold has risen $80 in the past two weeks. This is no promise that it will continue this trend at this time, but it is likely.

Why gold?

Watch "money as debt" - Search for it on google video. This will give you a better understanding of monetary metals (commodity currency).

The safest way to be invested in precious metals as a hedge against inflation - or disaster - is to own gold in silver - I mean really own it - hold it in your hand. No matter what happens it will have value. You can invest in paper gold - shares of mining companies, or ETF funds that track gold - but if things get too bad too fast you may not be able to cash out in time.

Of course there are other ways to hedge against bad times as mentioned - food, smokes, alcohol - all will always have value to people no matter what.

Some people say it's too late - stay in the markets and ride it out if you haven't got out already. I say you are risking everything. The Dow is in the 8000 range - there is still a lot of potential to go down. If you have got out and are holding cash - you are still risking everything.

This may sound crazy, impossible.. but this is just the tip of the iceberg. Things are likey to get MUCH worse. Too many people's minds are locked into the matrix. Open your mind and consider what could happen. Look at Wiemar Gernmany. Look at Zimbabwe. This is recent history. Have people gotten that much smarter in a few years? Have the rich become more selfless and ready to do the right thing to fix this crisis for the good of the middle class? Or do they want to keep what they have obtained during the creation of this mess?

This post has been edited by Movax: Dec 1 2008, 12:44 AM

[Rustmonkey]

We're going to see alot more regulation... especially after the lame ducks are out... Reaganomics has obviously failed...

[Reaper527]

QUOTE(Rustmonkey @ Dec 8 2008, 06:23 PM)

We're going to see alot more regulation... especially after the lame ducks are out... Reaganomics has obviously failed...

do you not understand what actually caused the financial mess we are in now? this wasn't under regulation, this was the CRA and other legislation pushed through by barney frank and chris dodd. their regulations forced banks to make high risk loans to low income families, or face federal penalties.

these families wouldn't have been eligible for the loans without the involvement of these democratic politicians, and guess what. there was a reason they wouldn't have been eligible, and that was that they couldn't afford the loans. when push came to shove, guess what happened, they defaulted on the loans they couldn't afford, and dragged the entire economy down with them.

we wouldn't have gotten ourselves into this mess if we let the market manage itself to begin with.

[Movax]

The mortgage mess just triggered the collapse. There is much more illness in the economy than housing.


-OTC derivatives - This is the killer:

Over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives are contracts that are traded (and privately negotiated) directly between two parties, without going through an exchange or other intermediary. Products such as swaps, forward rate agreements, and exotic options are almost always traded in this way. The OTC derivative market is the largest market for derivatives, and is unregulated. According to the Bank for International Settlements, the total outstanding notional amount is $596 trillion.

and...

-quickly mounting US debt
-Falling US dollar (long term - recently there has been a rally, might be over)
-loss of manufacturing base
-negative national savings rate
-massive trade deficit


lots more but that is off the top of my head.

[sarbo]

I'm really not all that concerned.

[Movax]

Few will really be concerned until it is obvious and accepted as indisputable truth , but the end of the us dollar as it is well underway. It will become something new and different in the next year or so. Commodity boom is here, lead by gold/silver, maybe oil. Don't be surprised to see gold become part of the monetary system again.

Things will be very different in the coming decade.

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$USD...id=p47007690112

[lordvader129]

i doubt we'll see "the end" of the dollar, worst case scenario the Fed will just peg it to the Euro or some other more stable currency, or even a commodity like oil

although i highly doubt that will happen either

[signal-to-noise-ratio]

Im not a lover of being off the gold standard. But this guy seems to have some insight of upcoming currency policy eventhough he worked with treasury and the fed. What he says seems to make sense.

    * OCTOBER 22, 2009, 10:49 P.M. ET

Alan Meltzer

"Preventing the Next Financial Crisis
Don't be fooled by the bond market. Banks are holding prices down because they can buy Treasurys with free money from the Fed. The United States is headed toward a new financial crisis. History gives many examples of countries with high actual and expected money growth, unsustainable budget deficits, and a currency expected to depreciate. Unless these countries made massive policy changes, they ended in crisis. We will escape only if we act forcefully and soon." more of article at link


http://online.wsj.co...1193581802.html


His bio and credentials

http://en.wikipedia....i/Allan_Meltzer


Here of course is bbc version in audio interview.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p004t22j


"The world is not yet out of the current financial crisis, and already there are fears that America is hurtling down the road towards another one. That's the disturbing scenario posed by US economist Allan Meltzer.

He worries that the current rescue measures taken by the central bank the US Federal Reserve will have unintended consequences. He fears that vast amounts of money sloshing around in US banks, interest rates at almost zero, and oceans of red ink in the US budget, could sow the seeds for rising inflation and ultimately, a dollar and debt crisis." more at link and audio to listen to


These sound to me like real problems. Its like steering a ship to avoid a rock then stay on the new course while headed for a new set of rocks but still worried about the old ones you already past. Thats the gist of it I get.