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[d-x-j]

QUOTE(snart @ Oct 6 2006, 07:43 PM)

You're doing selective reading. You can't pick out one sentence and say it contradicts others. You have to read the whole thing. You're legally allowed to make one back up of what you purchase, but you can't bypass any copy protection.

Put that together, and you can legally make one backup copy of software if the copyright/license owner lets you.

Period. End of discussion. This argument has been brought up many times before. As you can see from the recent ruling with Divineo, the judges are not confused.

i understand. but i dont think its right. some software you can backup and some you cant? i mean does that sound right to you?
the DCMA contradicts itself. im not selective reading. it states both sides.
i work with 3 software engineers that say it can be read both ways also.
like it was written to be used on a case by case basis.not a "set in stone" law.
this leaves all kinds of room for interpretation, yours and mine both.
both , probably equally right..... depending on the cicumstances.
software is fragile on disc and if this is the only medium we are given to use, then
we deserve the right to make copies, copyright protected or not.

[d-x-j]

QUOTE(NIA BackStabber @ Oct 7 2006, 03:34 AM)

theres apps out there that dont need hacked bios to copy games to the hdd softmodded xboxs can rip games to the hdd its an app thats installed when u softmod it i think its dvd2xbox not sure

the softmod does not touch the bios at all. and after booting, a person can rip games and back them up on a pc. programs can be installed to direct-rip games from the xbox to the pc, not to mention movies and music. no chip involved.

so...
like others have said,
if this case against divineo is real, and it sticks,
can microsoft be sued for making the xbox? since it allows piracy of almost every dvd on the market?

that wont happen, and it shouldnt happen to divineo.

[openxdkman]

I hope sued people outside US will just ignore US court (they won't be able to spend holidays in US, but well... there are plenty other interesting countries to visit...)

I think DMCA and the way judges interpret it is just another additional symptom of something more global that is occuring in US at the moment...

- Profitable war (for industry, not for soldiers or their family) triggered with false arguments
- Jail sentences allowed against webmasters showing porn drawings (not photograph, just drawings)
- Torture accepted (with a vote) in order to make prisoners talk
- More and more people killed in catastrophes triggered by global planet overheating but kyoto chart ignored

It's smells like the rich shareholder gets more and more protection whereas the little poor individual gets his freedom reduced over time... After some while the unbalance will be too much excessive and some social explosion will occur...

Let's pray for them, in hope they get a brighter future, but our life outside US shouldn't become scary just because they attempt sometimes to apply their "illogic" laws to foreigners. So if we don't live in USA, let's ignore US courts.

I will agree that selling a modchip is as bad as comitting a piracy act the day american weapon manufacturers get a jail sentence each time they sell a weapon used in a massive slaughter of innocent people in Africa.

[d-x-j]

QUOTE(openxdkman @ Oct 7 2006, 09:30 AM)

I hope sued people outside US will just ignore US court (they won't be able to spend holidays in US, but well... there are plenty other interesting countries to visit...)

I think DMCA and the way judges interpret it is just another additional symptom of something more global that is occuring in US at the moment...

- Profitable war (for industry, not for soldiers or their family) triggered with false arguments
- Jail sentences allowed against webmasters showing porn drawings (not photograph, just drawings)
- Torture accepted (with a vote) in order to make prisoners talk
- More and more people killed in catastrophes triggered by global planet overheating but kyoto chart ignored

It's smells like the rich shareholder gets more and more protection whereas the little poor individual gets his freedom reduced over time... After some while the unbalance will be too much excessive and some social explosion will occur...

Let's pray for them, in hope they get a brighter future, but our life outside US shouldn't become scary just because they attempt sometimes to apply their "illogic" laws to foreigners. So if we don't live in USA, let's ignore US courts.

I will agree that selling a modchip is as bad as comitting a piracy act the day american weapon manufacturers get a jail sentence each time they sell a weapon used in a massive slaughter of innocent people in Africa.

well spoken.

[TRIaXOR]

QUOTE(openxdkman @ Oct 7 2006, 09:30 AM)

I hope sued people outside US will just ignore US court (they won't be able to spend holidays in US, but well... there are plenty other interesting countries to visit...)

I think DMCA and the way judges interpret it is just another additional symptom of something more global that is occuring in US at the moment...

- Profitable war (for industry, not for soldiers or their family) triggered with false arguments
- Jail sentences allowed against webmasters showing porn drawings (not photograph, just drawings)
- Torture accepted (with a vote) in order to make prisoners talk
- More and more people killed in catastrophes triggered by global planet overheating but kyoto chart ignored

It's smells like the rich shareholder gets more and more protection whereas the little poor individual gets his freedom reduced over time... After some while the unbalance will be too much excessive and some social explosion will occur...

Let's pray for them, in hope they get a brighter future, but our life outside US shouldn't become scary just because they attempt sometimes to apply their "illogic" laws to foreigners. So if we don't live in USA, let's ignore US courts.

I will agree that selling a modchip is as bad as comitting a piracy act the day american weapon manufacturers get a jail sentence each time they sell a weapon used in a massive slaughter of innocent people in Africa.

My sentiments exactly.  

[Altima NEO]

So in the end, where does this leave us?
What position are we in?

[openxdkman]

The conclusion is (I think) :

Laws like DMCA are spreading worldwide, and they are threatening individual freedom (like the envy to customize a machine you purchased).

Be very careful next time you vote.
Politics know they are playing with fire.
One side will support these laws (they are under influence of lobbyings) and other side won't.

[trey85stang]

QUOTE(TRIaXOR @ Oct 6 2006, 08:14 PM)

I think they are, they are prosecuting a company and people outwith thier jurisdiction, since when does the DMCA apply in Canada or France?

Ever since they started doing business with USA residents.

QUOTE(openxdkman @ Oct 7 2006, 09:30 AM)

I hope sued people outside US will just ignore US court (they won't be able to spend holidays in US, but well... there are plenty other interesting countries to visit...)

I think DMCA and the way judges interpret it is just another additional symptom of something more global that is occuring in US at the moment...

- Profitable war (for industry, not for soldiers or their family) triggered with false arguments
- Jail sentences allowed against webmasters showing porn drawings (not photograph, just drawings)
- Torture accepted (with a vote) in order to make prisoners talk
- More and more people killed in catastrophes triggered by global planet overheating but kyoto chart ignored

It's smells like the rich shareholder gets more and more protection whereas the little poor individual gets his freedom reduced over time... After some while the unbalance will be too much excessive and some social explosion will occur...

Let's pray for them, in hope they get a brighter future, but our life outside US shouldn't become scary just because they attempt sometimes to apply their "illogic" laws to foreigners. So if we don't live in USA, let's ignore US courts.

I will agree that selling a modchip is as bad as comitting a piracy act the day american weapon manufacturers get a jail sentence each time they sell a weapon used in a massive slaughter of innocent people in Africa.

you have been reading too many conspiracy theories...   DCMA is a componet to fund a war.. fight porn and allow soldiers to torture war prisoners and support global warming??    

[TRIaXOR]

QUOTE

QUOTE(TRIaXOR @ Oct 6 2006, 08:14 PM)

I think they are, they are prosecuting a company and people outwith thier jurisdiction, since when does the DMCA apply in Canada or France?

QUOTE(trey85stang @ Oct 9 2006, 05:11 AM)

Ever since they started doing business with USA residents.

Thats BS, so If I buy a gun mail order from the US, I dont get prosecuted but the merchant does in a Scottish court? I think not, I'd get done, not the seller, and the same applies here, the DMCA means diddly outside the US even if US residents are buying stuff from em, the BUYERS are are the ones that should be prosecuted under the DMCA, not outside sources.

so let me make it clear..

the DMCA is a United States law passed by a bunch of corporate loving senators in Washington D.C, it does NOT apply OUTSIDE the US as it is a US LAW, remember, we dont stay in Planet America no matter what some of you guys think..

[thejt]

This is all so pathetic really.  I remember thinking to myself when the DMCA was in the works.. "Great... a bunch of non computer literate folks from the "whats a computer" generation making decisions for the rest of us literate folks!"

Now it is more apparent than ever..  I mean really;  how many members of the house or senate actually know how to use their computer for anything other than reading and spreading partisan gossip!!

In the end I don't expect them to understand the legitimacies of "fair use" because they lack the understanding how it all works and what it all means for lack of better words.  

Like someone said earlier.. it all about lobbyists.  He with the best show wins.  Unfortunately there is very few capable of conveing the message to the right people about other legitimate reasons to backup.  Take for instance the 360,  whether people want to admit it or not, it scratches disks itself.  I know some dont want to believe it but its very apparent to me just looking at our disc repair service and the overwhelming amount of 360 discs that come in looking exactly alike.  This was not so on the Xbox 1.  Should a guy have to eat $60 dollars because a few more cents wasnt spent padding the inside of the DVD drive?

[Goldenbear]

QUOTE(openxdkman @ Oct 7 2006, 01:30 AM)

I hope sued people outside US will just ignore US court (they won't be able to spend holidays in US, but well... there are plenty other interesting countries to visit...)

I think DMCA and the way judges interpret it is just another additional symptom of something more global that is occuring in US at the moment...

- Profitable war (for industry, not for soldiers or their family) triggered with false arguments
- Jail sentences allowed against webmasters showing porn drawings (not photograph, just drawings)
- Torture accepted (with a vote) in order to make prisoners talk
- More and more people killed in catastrophes triggered by global planet overheating but kyoto chart ignored

It's smells like the rich shareholder gets more and more protection whereas the little poor individual gets his freedom reduced over time... After some while the unbalance will be too much excessive and some social explosion will occur...

Let's pray for them, in hope they get a brighter future, but our life outside US shouldn't become scary just because they attempt sometimes to apply their "illogic" laws to foreigners. So if we don't live in USA, let's ignore US courts.

I will agree that selling a modchip is as bad as comitting a piracy act the day american weapon manufacturers get a jail sentence each time they sell a weapon used in a massive slaughter of innocent people in Africa.

Put down the crack pipe and get off of your "US Sucks" high horse.

I don't know any sane person that thinks the DCMA is a good law. It was written by a bunch of idiot politicians who only listened to the well-paid corporate lobbyists. It was NOT part of some US conspiracy to ruin the world  

The sad reality is, this lawsuit was mostly caused by all the jokers that have mis-used the mod-chips to pirate games. Yes, that includes the people who rent a game, copy it to their Xbox, then "forget" to delete it after returning the game.

You don't want to pay $60 for a game? THEN DON'T PLAY IT!!! It really ticks me off to see people making $80K/year pirate games/software/CDs/DVDs. If I could pay for my software back when I was a student working my way through school, so can anyone else!

[openxdkman]

1) Repeating facts and trying to explain their origin has nothing to do with saying "something sucks"
2) Also repeating again and again that no one should commit piracy acts is off-topic here.

I remember you that the problem is that a merchant received an enormous fine because of the way the tool he sold can be used. That tool can be used for other activities than piracy. For example for customizing a console in order to create programs running under Linux and a legal cromwel bios.

If a judge interprets a (too much) complex law and finally reaches conclusion a knife seller is as guilty as the murderer who used the knife, then an absolutely fundamental principle has just been ripped away...

And that is the subject of this thread. Not piracy in itself (which is already considered bad by everyone here, including moderators, no need to try to convince us, and anger will lead you nowhere).