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Author Topic: Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case  (Read 629 times)

47_M450N_47

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2006, 06:18:00 PM »

uhh.gif That was confusing... Anyway, I agree 100% with d-j-x!  I've always told that to my parents and others who don't like copying stuff.  We have our rights to backup our software!  There is NO REASON that we should have to buy the same game two times because it got scratched, stepped on, ate by a dog, whatever.  We are entitled to backup our software!  All my Xbox 1 games were taken out of their case 1 time, then locked safely away in their cases.  Playing backups saves money and keeps you from having to worry about losing your investment.

Another note...

@ the government of the USA:
GET OUT OF EVERYONE'S BUSINESS!!! F OFF!!! IF THE CANADIANS WANT TO SELL MODCHIPS, FREAKING LET THEM!!!!!

</rant>
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razorrifh

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2006, 06:26:00 PM »

the guy that said this was to set precident was totally right. if they have an easy case against a few companies, even if they cant collect, its gonna make it 100 times easier to sue someone when the case isnt as strong because the courts have ruled against them in the past.

glad the 360 doesnt need a chip biggrin.gif
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i800phyco

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2006, 06:45:00 PM »

QUOTE
this is fucking bs its not there fault there console wa that easy to hack fuck them its okto put theredisc in a pc and copy it no problem ps2 hgas always been successful for one reason backupsif there were non backups there wouldbe no business

I would think the ps2 has done well do to a fair amount of good games and the people that buy them.
Backups dont mean shit to most ps2 owners as they have stock consoles. Lets face it, alot (not all, but alot) of the people who buy from divineo do so to save money on games by renting/loaning the game and just making a copy. This is basic math buy $100 worth of shit and bam you dont have to buy $50 games anymore.

I'm not saying the us is right on this but someone had to play devils avocate.
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Altima NEO

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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2006, 06:47:00 PM »

So Im kind of lost. Why are they trying to get divineo to shell out cash? For selling modchips or for selling HD Loader? Last I checked, (legal) mod chips didnt contain any copyrighted code like the old PS2 chips did. Or ar those illegal now too?
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snart

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2006, 06:49:00 PM »

QUOTE(Altima NEO @ Oct 6 2006, 12:54 AM) View Post

So Im kind of lost. Why are they trying to get divineo to shell out cash? For selling modchips or for selling HD Loader? Last I checked, (legal) mod chips didnt contain any copyrighted code like the old PS2 chips did. Or ar those illegal now too?


As part of the DMCA, any device (hardware or software) that attempts to bypass a copy protection scheme that is put in place by the software copyright owner is illegal.
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d-x-j

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2006, 07:07:00 PM »

Fair use under United States law
The legal concept of "copyright" was first ratified by the United Kingdom's Statute of Anne of 1709. As room was not made for the authorized reproduction of copyrighted content within this newly formulated statutory right, the courts gradually created a doctrine of "fair abridgement", which later became "fair use", that recognized the utility of such actions. The doctrine only existed in the U.S. as common law until it was incorporated into the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 107, excerpted here:

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.



The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc., 510 U.S. 569 (1994), that fair use is an affirmative defense to copyright infringement. This means that if the defendant's actions do not constitute an infringement of the plaintiff's rights (for example, because the plaintiff's work was not copyrighted, or the defendant's work did not borrow from it sufficiently), fair use does not even arise as an issue. However, it also means that, once the plaintiff has proven (or the defendant concedes) that the defendant has committed an infringing act, the defendant then bears the burden of proving in court that his copying should nonetheless be excused as a fair use of the plaintiff's work.

Because of the defendant's burden of proof, some copyright owners frequently make claims of infringement even in circumstances where the fair use defense would likely succeed in hopes that the user will refrain from the use rather than spending resources in his defense. This type of frivolous lawsuit is part of a much larger problem in First Amendment law; see Strategic lawsuit against public participation.



QUOTE(snart @ Oct 6 2006, 01:53 AM) View Post

Unfortunately, that's not true. You're only reading part of the DMCA.

1. You're allowed to make a single backup of software.
2. You are not allowed to bypass any copy protection on hardware or software.

Add the two together, and you can clearly see that you can make a backup of your Adobe software (because it does not have copy protection), but not of your PS2 or Xbox games (because it has copy protection).



the DCMA does not distinguish between the two. it gives many variables as to what is and is not legal under fair use but does not separate sofware that has/ does not have anti piracy in it. it seems that this may be a hole in the laws. ive been reading through it and i cant find any separation between protected and unprotected software. unless im overlooking something, this means  M$ and any other company that publishes software does not have the right to prevent backups from being made.
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snart

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2006, 07:19:00 PM »

QUOTE(d-x-j @ Oct 6 2006, 01:06 AM) View Post

Fair use under United States law
The legal concept of "copyright" was first ratified by the United Kingdom's Statute of Anne of 1709. As room was not made for the authorized reproduction of copyrighted content within this newly formulated statutory right, the courts gradually created a doctrine of "fair abridgement", which later became "fair use", that recognized the utility of such actions. The doctrine only existed in the U.S. as common law until it was incorporated into the Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 107, excerpted here:

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc., 510 U.S. 569 (1994), that fair use is an affirmative defense to copyright infringement. This means that if the defendant's actions do not constitute an infringement of the plaintiff's rights (for example, because the plaintiff's work was not copyrighted, or the defendant's work did not borrow from it sufficiently), fair use does not even arise as an issue. However, it also means that, once the plaintiff has proven (or the defendant concedes) that the defendant has committed an infringing act, the defendant then bears the burden of proving in court that his copying should nonetheless be excused as a fair use of the plaintiff's work.

Because of the defendant's burden of proof, some copyright owners frequently make claims of infringement even in circumstances where the fair use defense would likely succeed in hopes that the user will refrain from the use rather than spending resources in his defense. This type of frivolous lawsuit is part of a much larger problem in First Amendment law; see Strategic lawsuit against public participation.



The law in the United States is executed based upon precedence. In other words, how the last judge to make a ruling interpreted the law. This copyright issue has been flip-flopping for decades; the DMCA is an attempt to make it very clear to judges how they should rule (the ruling you cite is from 1994, the DMCA was approved in 1998).


The Divineo decision is just the latest way to announce to the world (specifically, the U.S.) that the law is no longer fuzzy. Once you pass something like the DMCA, you can't go back to the past and bring up examples of "fair use" anymore; that's the point of passing new laws like the DMCA- to get rid of the confusion.

QUOTE(d-x-j @ Oct 6 2006, 01:14 AM) View Post

the DCMA does not distinguish between the two. it gives many variables as to what is and is not legal under fair use but does not separate sofware that has/ does not have anti piracy in it. it seems that this may be a hole in the laws. ive been reading through it and i cant find any separation between protected and unprotected software. unless im overlooking something, this means  M$ and any other company that publishes software does not have the right to prevent backups from being made.


Some excerpts:

QUOTE
Sec. 1201. Circumvention of copyright protection systems

      `(a) VIOLATIONS REGARDING CIRCUMVENTION OF TECHNOLOGICAL MEASURES- (1)(A) No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.


That's the serial number vs. real copy protection issue.

   
QUOTE
   `(ADDITIONAL VIOLATIONS- (1) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--

            `(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure that effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title in a work or a portion thereof;


.


And that's the people selling modchips. Notice the "import" reference, too.
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d-x-j

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2006, 07:38:00 PM »

QUOTE(snart @ Oct 6 2006, 02:19 AM) View Post

The law in the United States is executed based upon precedence. In other words, how the last judge to make a ruling interpreted the law. This copyright issue has been flip-flopping for decades; the DMCA is an attempt to make it very clear to judges how they should rule (the ruling you cite is from 1994, the DMCA was approved in 1998).
The Divineo decision is just the latest way to announce to the world (specifically, the U.S.) that the law is no longer fuzzy. Once you pass something like the DMCA, you can't go back to the past and bring up examples of "fair use" anymore; that's the point of passing new laws like the DMCA- to get rid of the confusion.




i just cant see this being implimented based on DCMA regulation. good point, it is an attempt to give the law a clear and obvious feel, but it still doesnt touch the topic at hand, video games.

why is it that linux can make a program to bypass the security for free and they are not a target, yet divineo sells chips that, in the end, do the same thing? and are under fire?

money.video games are more profitable than hollywood!

notice the marketing strategy of M$ on the 360. the add on sales at launch.case mods, skins, xna, retro games, they cloned what the scene is doing because they know it makes money!

it feels like they just want control over the mod scene so they get most of the profit. the DCMA is just the tool. so....
the DCMA can be used on both sides for argument as it stands now and im for fair use.
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jxoxn21

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« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2006, 08:02:00 PM »

YO, so does this mean Divineo isn't gonna ship to the U.S. anymore???  mad.gif
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gainpresence

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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2006, 08:07:00 PM »

Most people don't realize this, but Fair Use allows one EXACT copy of a computer program, which means you must use the same media.. Hard drives don't fit that bill, and you certainly can't "rip" games (remove demos, etc).
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epsilon72

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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2006, 08:21:00 PM »

Arrghh.  Screw the DMCA, along with DRM, RIAA and MPAA.
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d-x-j

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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2006, 08:27:00 PM »

QUOTE(gainpresence @ Oct 6 2006, 03:14 AM) View Post

Most people don't realize this, but Fair Use allows one EXACT copy of a computer program, which means you must use the same media.. Hard drives don't fit that bill, and you certainly can't "rip" games (remove demos, etc).



the DCMA does not distinguish anywhere between any of the mediums one can use for backup. flash, hd, dvd, cd-rom, floppy. the protection is for the data, not what the data is on. if this was the case, then when u buy windows or any other software on disc and install it to ur hd, ur in violation of the DCMA. every time u rip a disc of music u purchased into windows to convert to mp3 for ur mp3 player, i guess ur in violation then too? if this was true, M$ would be in court for Media Player.
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Ninjaman

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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2006, 09:02:00 PM »

I always thought that a modchip itself it not illegal because it really doesn't do anything.   Its the software/program that is illegal right?...or am I wrong...for example speaking of the original Xbox...you can install the modchip by itself and it ain't going to do much...install the chip with a bios then it is illegal.
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asspants

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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2006, 09:10:00 PM »

QUOTE(d-x-j @ Oct 5 2006, 06:55 PM) View Post

if u read into the DCMA, you will see that when a consumer purchases software, the purchaser is allowed to make 1 backup copy of their purchase.u are not allowed to make 2 copies, just one. many software providers dont incorporate anti piracy into their software for this reason, but all of the games we buy do.

You just made all that up.

QUOTE

this is in fact not legal under the DCMA because it prevents u from making a backup of the software. look it up. u wont believe what these companies really get away with when it comes to these laws(DCMA).so if a legal battle does arise for any of these vendors, there is the argument. there is NO means of making a backup of your games until the actual unit is modified to do so. M$ doesnt offer any solution either so as a consumer, we are entitled to access to the tools for backing up our software. 1 scratch on a disc can ruin a $50 investment. when u get 30 + games under ur belt, and add it up ($1500), u bet ur ass im gonna back it up so 50 years from now ill still have my investment. as good as the day i bought it. we, as consumers, have this legal right under the DCMA!!!!!!!!!!! the legal system cant prosicute one part of the law that contradicts the other.


I can't take legal advice from someone who can't be bothered to type the word 'you' instead of 'u'
The issue at hand is not "is it legal to make copies" the issue is that these mod chips allow for circumvention of access controls for rights management.

Yeah I agree it's fucked up.

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d-x-j

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Mod Chip Sellers Ordered to Pay 9M USD in US Piracy Case
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2006, 10:07:00 PM »

QUOTE(asspants @ Oct 6 2006, 04:17 AM) View Post

You just made all that up.
I can't take legal advice from someone who can't be bothered to type the word 'you' instead of 'u'
The issue at hand is not "is it legal to make copies" the issue is that these mod chips allow for circumvention of access controls for rights management.

Yeah I agree it's fucked up.


im not a lawyer, i dont give legal advice, and none of this is made up.

what? i just pulled this out of thin air? please.

http://www.copyright...ents/index.html

read comment 15 from Ken Arromdee

"circumvention of access controls for rights management."??? what does that even mean?

the game consoles dont make money for the industry. the games do!!! they dont care if we make our homebrew apps. they support it now

ever hear of "xna"? they want us to get more involved with the homebrew scene.

they just want to prevent piracy of software that has copyrights. if "U" bothered to read, "U" would see.  




QUOTE(asspants @ Oct 6 2006, 04:17 AM) View Post

You just made all that up.
I can't take legal advice from someone who can't be bothered to type the word 'you' instead of 'u'
The issue at hand is not "is it legal to make copies" the issue is that these mod chips allow for circumvention of access controls for rights management.

Yeah I agree it's fucked up.



http://www.copyright...tion/hr2281.pdf
go read.
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