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[Ween311]

I guess this could go along with Melon's thread about double standards for certain groups, but in a different way.

CNN article

Tenesse has ruled that a Muslim student can wear a head scarf when the dress code states that there is to be no headwear in school.  Yet her hajib is impartant to her faith as it says that Muslim females must have their heads covered while in public.  The confusion comes in because wasn't it recently decided that there could be no prayer in school because of not wanting to give the impression of a government ok to any religion?  Doesn't this kind of go against that same argument?  That the school is somewhat endorsing the Muslim faith?

I guess it could be argued that other religious students can wear rings or necklaces on them that have religious symbology on them if they are within the normal rules of the dress code. but only because it is within the confines of the dress code.  In this case they are changing the rules for one group of students (or just one student in the article).  Are they going to have to allow WWJD hats now too?  Or kippot for Jewish students?  Or hats for any student that wants to wear headwear?

This should not turn into a discussion about any religion being better than another.  I just want opinions on what people think about this ruling.  Does anybody even care?

[EverythingButAnAnswer]

That is because Islam has a much more conservative religious/cultural base, and some fear it would cause some promising students to miss the opportunity to receive a quality education. This is a civil rights issue, because if the government passed such a policy as that it could infringe on her right to receive an education. When Islam finally has its reformation and the millions awaken their eyes to reason, all will be fine, until then there isn't much you can do but sit back and wait. I do agree with you somewhat about the double standards issue, but again there really isn't shit anyone can do about it. So the best thing you can do is not care. I would also like to state that science doesn't have the answers for everything, facts can be modified, religion (moderately anyway) isn't as bad as it is sometimes cracked up to be.

[damam]

For right now I dont think it is a double standard.  

She has a right to religious expression, just as I do.  As you pointed out, their is nothing keeping me from praying on my own, wearing religious tshirts, crosses etc within the confine of the dress code, I just cant lead a class in a religious ceremony (unless something has changed since I was in high school).  Thats because I would be imposing the practice of my religion on others.  

It would be a double standard if she were to say make every women in her classroom wear a scarf, forcing others to pray 5 times a day, etc.  But she is not imposing her belief that all women need to be covered on others.  She is only imposing it upon herself.

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Or kippot for Jewish students?

They should allow kippot's, as well as any other religious article that is deemed necessary for a person to be considered a good faith practitioner of their faith.

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Are they going to have to allow WWJD hats now too?

I would argue the wwjd hat would really not fall into that category because it is not necessary for the practitioner of christianity to be considered a good faith practitioner of their faith.

  The headwear rule would fall apart if say some gang declares themselves a religion.

[The unProfessional]

The mistake isn't in allowing her to wear her head scarf.  I'm happy to see her rights honored as they should be.

The mistake is in the anti-majority movement that never ceases to amaze us.  I believe in individual religious freedom, I believe in history, and I believe in individual morality.  The problem is that, at least here in CA, special interest groups control the legislation.  So just as long as you aren't white, male, straight, or christian, others generally respect your freedoms.

[K98]

It's sad to have to have a state ruling on this issue and waste tax dollars on such a stupid ass thing. Of course she can wear that turban thingy or whatever if it's her religion. I dont have a problem with that at all.

Here's what I have a problem with It's when people bitch about the word "god" in the pledge and anything else. I see stupid people suing each other this seperation crap that it's just stupid. I also hate when people sue the state because their kid can't wear black lipstick or brigth green hair to school. They say it infringes on their right of self expression. School is not the place to express those type of non religious things.

[makaveli91]

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. I also hate when people sue the state because their kid can't wear black lipstick or brigth green hair to school. They say it infringes on their right of self expression

This is exactly what i meant.

[Ween311]

Thanks for all the input.  I am glad to see people discussing this without all the flaming that usually goes on in this particular forum.

I'm still kind of undecided.  I see and respect both sides.  I am glad that the student is able to express herself as it relates to her faith and I am glad that,  as the article pointed out it has not become a distraction for the other students.  At the same time, public schools usually have different rulings when it comes to the rights of individuals.  For example, in a public school, if an official wants to search you, your belongings, or even your vehicle (if it's on school property) they can do so at any time without having to respect your rights about unlawful search and seizures.  I kind of view this as the same thing.  If you want to express yourself outside of school, great.  Get to it.  But you are at school to learn and I don't see how not being able to wear an article of religious clothing is going to hinder that learning process at all.

On the other hand, I too applaud the lawmakers for not intruding on someones civil liberties and hopefully this will not set a precedence for excessive lawsuits or judgements about freedom of expression in public shcools.  So, hopefully you can see where the confusion comes.  

Again, thanks for the thoughtful input and for not turning this into a flamefest.

[EverythingButAnAnswer]

It's like you totally ignored my post, which isn't a big deal (most people do it anyway) .  The reason it would hinder her educational opportunity because her religion depending on how strictly she follows it, requires her to wear that head scarf. They have to wear it anytime they are in public the only time they are permitted to remove it is when they are at home. It won't be that big of a deal after Islam has a reformation.

[melon]

It was a good point brought up by everything. We have simliar problems over here. The problem is if a muslim girl is not allowed to wear her headscarf there is the possability that her parents may stop her going to school all together.

We had a case recently were a muslim girl took her school to court because she wanted to wear a hijab. The school allowed headscarves and certain religous garments but said the hijab was going to far.  I agree because there is nothing stopping her wearing it once she is out of school.

Anyway the reason she was not allowed was health and safety but the real reason and the reason the papers picked up on was that by allowing her to wear it would be like forcing every other muslim girl in the school to wear one.
Within the local Muslim communities there is a fear of being seen as a bad muslim and if one girl wanted to wear it out of choice the rest would be forced to by thier parents who would not want to be seen as poor muslims.

I am looking forward to seeing how France does after it banned all religous items from schools.


On a simliar topic does anyone else think it is fucked up that if I was to walk around with a knife I would be arrested but Sikhs are allowed to because its their religion?

Im starting my own religion were you can only wear trainers, you must carry an uzi at all times, and blow jobs and smoking weed are religous ceremonies.

[The unProfessional]

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Im starting my own religion were you can only wear trainers, you must carry an uzi at all times, and blow jobs and smoking weed are religous ceremonies.

You share my same point.  It's a difficult subject.  Schools simply cannot honor all individual religious rights.  People need to grow up and understand that it isn't the job of the public school system to tolerate every little idiosyncracy.  Most private schools require uniforms.  Public schools have very lenient dress codes, but they need to draw the line somewhere.  If your kids really need to express every religious muslim trait 24 hours a day then maybe it's best to send them to a muslim school.  I highly doubt they'd allow me to wear a robe and carry a 3-foot crucifix just to be a "good Christian".  It's tough to see where the line is drawn - so the safest thing to do is draw it early.

[melon]

its slightly different over here because every school has a uniform, not just private ones.

[Ween311]

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It's like you totally ignored my post, which isn't a big deal (most people do it anyway) .

Sorry, didn't mean it to sound that way.  I just meant that I don't see how not wearing a hijab is going to hinder her education.  Unless her parents are forbidding her to go to that school.  Then in the US, they could be held responsible under truancy laws.

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its slightly different over here because every school has a uniform, not just private ones.

I think that is a great idea.  I think public school students should wear uniforms here as well.

[K98]

I would of hated uniforms just because they'll be all professional looking and shit. I never dress with a tie or even a collared shit. I dont even own either. I wear nice clothes blue jeans or khakis with a nice t shirt usually always

[Ween311]

Not necessarily ties and jackets, but pants and collared shirt.  It would be up to each county or state depending on the laws.  

I think it would go a long way in making kids more comfortable in school.  Poorer kids would not have to worry about having the right clothes.  It would be harder for cliques to form.  They would still be there doubtlessly, but no one would be pre-judged on the clothes that they were wearing.  Basically, the emphasis is put on education and not on who is wearing what.

[damam]

THE UNPROFESSIONAL:
I see your point about the muslim culture of female oppression and how it contradicts education.

I think that muslims could have a sexual revolution without necessarily losing their hijab.  Some women in the states used the sexual revolution as an excuse to lose their moral base, but the vast majority of women used the sexual revolution to simply demand really basic rights and never used it to change the fundamental values they grew up with.

Some muslim women may see the hijab as a shackle of oprression, but my guess is that the majority do not, and it does not mean that it has to be embraced that way at all.