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Author Topic: "60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake  (Read 439 times)

BenJeremy

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2004, 04:22:00 PM »

QUOTE

Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, again questioned Bush's record in the National Guard on Sunday.

“Just because you get an honorable discharge does not in fact answer that question,” Kerry said while campaigning in Virginia.
NBC


QUOTE

Meanwhile, Kerry came under attack from White House spokesman Scott McClellan, who blamed the Democrat and his supporters for manipulating a new anti-Bush group called Texans for Truth that's challenging Bush's service in the Texas and Alabama Air National Guards over 30 years ago.

"I think you are absolutely seeing a coordinated attack by John Kerry and his surrogates on the president," McClellan said. He suggested that Kerry's fall in recent polls is making Democrats desperate.

Texans for Truth is an offshoot of MoveOn.org, an anti-Bush activist group, and its leader is a former Democratic consultant.
(MoveOn has an incredible array of ties directly to the DNC and senior Kerry Campaign staffers)


QUOTE

In a recent speech, though, Kerry said, "Well, if (Bush) wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.' "

...

Kerry used the four-day Democratic convention to establish an identity as a war-wounded veteran now ready to take command
Tuscon Citizen



QUOTE

John Kerry has launched a furious attack on the Vietnam record of President Bush and Dick Cheney saying that the Republican pair had "refused" to serve in the war while he was committed to national duty.
TimesOnline (UK)


There's probably a lot more... just skimming from the online news articles. There was a few vile quotes form Kerry I heard on the radio a couple of weeks ago when he made a stop in Michigan. Kerry continues to use Bush's fuzzy Air Guard record as a hammering point; meanwhile, Bush has only stated that he respects, and thanks Kerry for his service, and does not question his record.



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BenJeremy

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2004, 05:07:00 PM »

QUOTE

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SUN SEPT 12, 2004 19:02:38 ET XXXXX

DNC TO LAUNCH FRESH ATTACK ON BUSH GUARD DUTY:  WILL RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT 1978 CAMPAIGN LIT

**Exclusive**

Dems are set to take to the airwaves anew with questions about President Bush's National Guard duty, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

Candidate Kerry apparently has rejected former President Clinton's advice not to get further locked in a 2004 Vietnam quagmire.

"George W. Bush's campaign literature claimed that he 'served in the U.S. Air Force.' The only problem? He didn't,"  slams a new DNC press release set for distribution.

Dems will attempt to increase the heat on Bush ahead of his planned Tuesday address before The National Guard Association gathering in Las Vegas.

(Kerry plans to speak to the group on Thursday, but he personally hold back questioning Bush's service, sources explain.)

The coordinated nationwide effort this week by the DNC has been code-named "Project Fortunate Son."

"George Bush has a clear pattern of lying about his military service," DNC Communications Director Jano Cabrera blasts in the new release. "From 1978 to the present day, George Bush has refused to tell voters the truth about his service. It's time for the President to come clean."

"Flyers distributed to Texas voters during Bush's failed Congressional race say 'he served in the U.S. Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard.' But according to Air Force officials, Air National Guardsmen are not counted as members of the active-duty Air Force."



Wow.... what a bunch of dumbasses. This will backfire horribly, particularly in light of the forgeries. They believe the crap they've been making up for the last 4 years and now that they are standing knee deep in it, they want to throw it at the public. Real smart (not).
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nemt

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2004, 05:15:00 PM »

Points of interest:

John Kerry requested a student deferment, to avoid service.

John Kerry enlisted in the Naval Reserve, not the US Navy, which was as common a route to take for those wishing to avoid combat as the Nat'l Guard.

John Kerry did his first "tour" on the USS Gridley, a guided missile frigate which was in such dangerous combat zones as California and New Zealand.

John Kerry spent the first month of his four month stint as a swift boat captain training far away from any action.

John Kerry volunteered for the swift boats because at the time they were only being used for coastal guard duty, and the VC had no weapons to reach them while they were in the ocean.

John Kerry protested strenuously when the swift boats were reassigned to river patrol missions.


..this is in addition to the issues with his fradulent medals, and his early ticket home.
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pug_ster

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2004, 06:08:00 PM »

QUOTE (BenJeremy @ Sep 13 2004, 12:25 AM)
I'm not going to waste time with your blather.

Bill Burkett, raving anti-Bush as possible source of forgeries

There's probably a lot more... just skimming from the online news articles. There was a few vile quotes form Kerry I heard on the radio a couple of weeks ago when he made a stop in Michigan. Kerry continues to use Bush's fuzzy Air Guard record as a hammering point; meanwhile, Bush has only stated that he respects, and thanks Kerry for his service, and does not question his record.

BenJeremy, I am sure if I go to moveon.org, I can give you about all the negative dirt about Bush.  If I did that, you would say I am making up stories.

While saying that, please refer a more reputable site than a site like Drudge report or any other anti-kerry website for proof.

As for both of you, it seems to me that both of you are fixating on Kerry's Vietnam record because you have a lot of reasons to slander it.  This the reason why Kerry has to defend his record and why it seems that Kerry is focused on his record on Vietnam.
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nemt

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2004, 06:15:00 PM »

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 12 2004, 09:11 PM)
As for both of you, it seems to me that both of you are fixating on Kerry's Vietnam record because you have a lot of reasons to slander it.  This the reason why Kerry has to defend his record and why you see that stuff in the news.

I had no interest in Kerry's war record before he attacked the President's, and made viet nam an issue in the first election since 1972.

Like I've said before, military service, and 270 electoral votes, will make you president.
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BenJeremy

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2004, 06:23:00 PM »

pug_ster: As for the Drudge Report, I guess we'll find out on Thursday, won't we?

You say he's not attacking Bush on a 30 year old item, and he's not standing on his own record, real or contrived, from the Vietnam war; I say he is.


You can deny it all you want right now, though the evidence is there... and even more so Thursday. Kerry is desperate; his campaign is falling apart (and he thinks he's going to fix it with mega-loser Shrum at the helm?) and he's going to get his hands dirty in the smear campaign.


Obviously, the forged documents were the first salvo in the stepped up smear offensive against Bush. Sad that they must make up facts, but then, their most loyal have been believing it for 4 years now (well, a lot longer than that, but 4 years for this SET of lies).

I've seen the left go through more twists and turns than a Chinese Contortionist in an effort to refute the charges the forgeries were made with anything but a 1973 era IBM Typewriter, and I've seen them ignore the big elephant in the room - the obvious factual errors and logical flaws in the "memos" - and it makes me wonder if this really is a form of insanity.
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pug_ster

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2004, 06:39:00 PM »

QUOTE (nemt @ Sep 13 2004, 02:18 AM)
I had no interest in Kerry's war record before he attacked the President's, and made viet nam an issue in the first election since 1972.

Like I've said before, military service, and 270 electoral votes, will make you president.

You're right.  I rather be talking about Taxes, Health Care, Environment, Education, Jobs, Budget Deficit, etc....  But Bush kept talking about Defense and Terrorists and ignoring all the other issues makes me sick.

At this time, I think whomever wins 270 Electoral votes gets to be President, because the Campaign is getting uglier and uglier everyday.
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nemt

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2004, 06:52:00 PM »

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 12 2004, 09:42 PM)
At this time, I think whomever wins 270 Electoral votes gets to be President, because the Campaign is getting uglier and uglier everyday.

Okay.

Never post here again, ever.
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pug_ster

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2004, 06:56:00 PM »

QUOTE (nemt @ Sep 13 2004, 02:55 AM)
Okay.

Never post here again, ever.

Thanks, but I will skip on that because I like to express my opinions.
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EverythingButAnAnswer

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 13 2004, 02:59 AM)
Thanks, but I will skip on that because I like to express my opinions.

You're "e-opinion", because if you expressed your opinion in real life you would get drop kicked in the face.  laugh.gif
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pug_ster

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2004, 08:16:00 PM »

QUOTE (EverythingButAnAnswer @ Sep 13 2004, 04:17 AM)
You're "e-opinion", because if you expressed your opinion in real life you would get drop kicked in the face.  laugh.gif

I am sure that you have everything but an answer.
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BenJeremy

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2004, 08:29:00 PM »

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 12 2004, 11:19 PM)
I am sure that you have everything but an answer.

Oh, I think he'd have an answer if he met you in a street (the aforementioned kick in the face).

Actually, we could talk all day about Kerry's Senate record, but he doesn't want to discuss that.

Go figure.

QUOTE

Here are only a few of the questions Kerry hasn't adequately addressed. They
don't even have anything to do with swift boats. There are no "gotcha"
questions. They're posed in a respectful manner. In fact, many are
softballs. After all, few interviewers would wish to alienate Kerry and
foreclose the possibility of follow-up interviews. With that in mind, here
goes:

1. The Bush campaign maintains that you spent 20 years in the Senate with no
signature legislative achievements. What do you consider to be the five most
important pieces of legislation that you've authored?

a. What's the most important piece of legislation regarding intelligence
you've authored?

b. What's the most important piece of antiterrorism legislation you've
authored?

c. What's the most important piece of health-care legislation you've
authored?

d. What's the most important piece of education legislation you've authored?

2. You'd agree that on paper, Dick Cheney's experience and qualifications
dwarf those of your running mate. Why would John Edwards make a better
president during the war on terror than Dick Cheney?

a. It's been widely reported that John McCain was your first choice as
running mate. If true, why did you prefer Senator McCain to Senator Edwards?

3. Earlier this year you told Tim Russert that you'd release all of your
military records, yet you've failed to do so and you refuse to release your
Vietnam journal. Why shouldn't the public infer that the contents of these
documents would undermine your credibility or otherwise damage your
candidacy?

a. When will you release the documents?

4. You've stated that you believe that life begins at conception yet you
voted against the ban on partial-birth abortions. At precisely what point is
a life worth protecting?

a. Is there any limitation on abortion (waiting periods, parental
notification) for which you'd vote? If so, what?

5. You've promised to repeal much of the Bush tax cut and while in the
Senate you voted to raise taxes an average of five times per year. If
current economic trends remain largely unchanged during a Kerry presidency,
would you seek additional tax increases?

a. How would you raise taxes and what are the highest marginal tax rates
that you'd support?

6. You opposed the 1991 Gulf War even though Saddam Hussein had weapons of
mass destruction, had invaded another country, and France and Germany had
supported the war. In the current conflict no WMDs have been found, France
and Germany oppose the action, and Saddam hadn't invaded another country.
Yet you recently stated that knowing what you know now, you'd nonetheless
authorize the use of force even though you voted against funding it. Could
you please reconcile these positions?

7. You acknowledge meeting with representatives of North Vietnam and the
Viet Cong in Paris in 1970. Afterward you urged Congress to accept the North
Vietnamese proposals. Please explain how this wasn't a violation of the
Logan Act and, if you were still in the Naval Reserves at that time, how it
wasn't a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice prohibiting
unauthorized communications with the enemy.

8. In several speeches before black audiences you've stated that a million
African Americans were disenfranchised and had their votes stolen in the
2000 presidential election. There are no official or media investigations
that support that statement. What evidence do you have to support the
statement and if you believe a million blacks had their votes stolen, why
haven't you called for criminal prosecutions and congressional
investigations?

9. Do you dispute the National Journal's assessment that you're the nation's
most liberal senator? If you do, which senators do you consider to be more
liberal and why?

10. Why did you propose cutting the intelligence budget by $6 billion in
1994?

11. As president, would you nominate anyone to be either an attorney
general, FBI director, or CIA director who had been a leader and chief
spokesman for a group that had discussed and voted upon a plan to
assassinate U.S. senators (even if the proposed nominee had opposed such
plan)?

12. You have consistently stated that you "never, never" attended the
November 1971 Kansas City meeting of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War at
which a plan to assassinate six pro-military U.S. senators was discussed.
Several newspapers reported that when confronted with FBI surveillance
reports, your campaign "all but conceded" that you were in attendance , but
claimed that this was a mere "footnote in history."

a. Were you there?

b. Did you discuss the assassination of U.S. senators? What did you say?

c. Did you vote upon such a plan? How did you vote? Were any similar plans
discussed by your group at any time? What were they?

d. If the plan was voted down, what steps did you take to insure that
supporters of the plan didn't carry it out anyway?

e. Especially considering that this took place in an era of political
assassinations and assassination attempts (Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther
King Jr., George Wallace, etc.), did you report the discussion to any
law-enforcement authorities? If not, why not?

f. When did you resign from the organization?

g. Do you dispute reports that you continued as a spokesman for the
organization for more than a year after the Kansas City meeting?

h. If this was a mere footnote in history why have you repeatedly and
vehemently denied you were there?

i. Did your campaign, as alleged in several newspaper accounts, attempt to
get a witness to change his story about your attendance?

13. You have criticized the Patriot Act. What portions would you repeal or
amend and why? What evidence do you have of any abuses of the Patriot Act?

14. As president, what would you do about Iran's emerging nuclear
capability?

15. During your eight-year tenure on the Senate Intelligence Committee you
missed more than thee fourths of all public meetings. It's also been
reported that you have skipped or delayed receiving intelligence briefings
during the campaign. Why should the public believe that you're serious about
this issue?

16. What do you think is appropriate punishment for guards (and their
superiors) found guilty of prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib? Do you believe they
should be stripped of command and receive dishonorable discharges and prison
time?

17. On May 6, 2001, on Meet the Press, you stated that you had committed
"the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers" in violation of
the Geneva Convention. Specifically, you said you burned villages and "used
50-calibre machine guns, which [you] were granted and ordered to use, which
were our only weapon against people."

a. Who ordered you to use 50-caliber machine guns on people?

b. How many people did you shoot with the 50s and how many of them were
killed or wounded?

c. When and where did these shootings occur?

d. What other atrocities did you commit and when?

e. Which village(s) did you burn down and when?

f. Were any of your crewmembers present during the commission of any of
these atrocities?

g. Did you order them to participate in the atrocities? Did they follow your
orders?

h. Why were there no reports of these atrocities? Did you order your crew
not to report them?

i. Are any of these incidents described in your Vietnam journal? If not, why
not?

j. Did you observe thousands of (or any) other troops committing atrocities?
When, where and what kind? Did you report them? If not, why not?

k. In light of your admitted atrocities, if Abu Ghraib guards found guilty
of abuse should receive prison time and be stripped of command, why do you
believe you should be considered for commander-in-chief?

18. Who among the justices currently sitting on the Supreme Court would be a
model for your nominees to the federal bench? Why?

19. In a speech before Drake University Law School you characterized U.S.
allies in the war in Iraq as "some trumped-up so-called Coalition of the
bribed, the coerced, the bought and the extorted,..." Do you maintain that
Great Britain has been bribed, coerced, bought, or extorted? What about
Italy? Japan? Poland? Please specifically identify those members of the
Coalition that have been either bribed, coerced, bought, and extorted and
the officials who were bribed or bought.

20. You told George Stephanopoulos that you had a plan to get out of Iraq
but refused to provide details. Would you consent to having your secret plan
privately evaluated by an independent, bi-partisan panel of military experts
who could report the plan's merits to the electorate without divulging the
details?

a. Would you also consent to privately revealing to an independent panel the
names of the foreign leaders who secretly support you so that the panel can
confirm your story to the electorate?

b. Ditto regarding the leaders whom you say have secretly told Senators
Biden and Levin that you must win?

Obviously, there are a lot more questions Social Security, health care, etc.
Certainly there are tougher questions and those more artfully crafted. This
is just a start. Feel free to add your own. TV-newsmagazine producers are
welcome to use any of the above


Nope, Kerry doesn't want to cover the things that really matter, either. Please keep your hand on this hand (big flourish) while the other sneaks out your wallet, pocket watch, underwear, etc....

user posted image
Kerry describes how much his bruise (Purple Heart #2?) hurt, while Ron corrects him...
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pug_ster

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2004, 08:42:00 PM »

QUOTE (BenJeremy @ Sep 13 2004, 04:32 AM)
Oh, I think he'd have an answer if he met you in a street (the aforementioned kick in the face).

Actually, we could talk all day about Kerry's Senate record, but he doesn't want to discuss that.

Go figure.



Nope, Kerry doesn't want to cover the things that really matter, either. Please keep your hand on this hand (big flourish) while the other sneaks out your wallet, pocket watch, underwear, etc....

Kerry describes how much his bruise (Purple Heart #2?) hurt, while Ron corrects him...

I'm afraid those questions are for John Kerry and not me.  But I am sure that you have everything but an answer too.  But keep those dumbass jokes coming.

I forgot, Tim Russert has some questions for Bush too...

http://www.alternet.org/story/17780

And another site with more questions.

http://www.commondre...s03/1115-08.htm
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nemt

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2004, 08:46:00 PM »

QUOTE (pug_ster @ Sep 12 2004, 09:59 PM)
Thanks, but I will skip on that because I like to express my opinions.

Then explain what the hell "At this time, I think whomever wins 270 Electoral votes gets to be President, because the Campaign is getting uglier and uglier everyday." means?

Do you even know how the electoral college works?
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pug_ster

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"60 Minutes" Documents On Bush Might Be Fake
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2004, 08:49:00 PM »

QUOTE (nemt @ Sep 13 2004, 04:49 AM)
Then explain what the hell "At this time, I think whomever wins 270 Electoral votes gets to be President, because the Campaign is getting uglier and uglier everyday." means?

Do you even know how the electoral college works?
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