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[67thRaptorBull]

QUOTE (Asmodeus @ Jul 14 2004, 11:51 PM)

I can not believe what I just read. Why are you in the business if you are NOT making money. REALLY sad! They (and Sony) are just using their profits in other industries (Software and Hardware respectively) and trying to muscle into a business they know nothing about. I have bashed MS in the past (I think it stinks that they do not have a REAL 1st part developement house....they went and bought what they have) but I believed that they made some inroads by now. How does it feel to be a shareholder of MS stocks and watch them throw money out the window? I keep hearing this "we are in it for the long term"....but when is it over? When Nintendo and Sony don't have enough money to compete with their selling the XBox at a loss? Seems REALLY sad that they are allowed to throw that kind of money out the window (almost a pun). I am floored....I cannot believe they STILL have not started making money. That is just DUMB! Here is a quote from Steve Ballmer: I think the work that Bill (Gates) and I have been doing, really together, is to make sure we are investing in new areas. Look at what we have done with Xbox. We may still be losing money, but we have gone from nowhere to a significant player with a whole different approach. We've generated something brand new. I bet we can take Sony next generation. I am betting we can take Sony in the next generation. Since you mention Xbox, there was a recent poll of top most admired brands and MS wasn't in the top 10 this time. How important is that in terms of the overall consumer business? Brand is important. Brand is always important in the consumer business, and I think we have an excellent brand. The last several years we've done very well. We did very well this year. What causes people to go up a point or down a point? I think frankly until we whip this security thing, it doesn't surprise me that we might have dropped a little bit. You can take a look at the whole article here. Try not to let this turn into a fanboy section. I am sure some of you are thinking that that is what I am doing....it is not. I just do not think there is a good reason to be doing something (especially for this long) and LOSING MONEY! How long before you would get fired if your section of a company kept posting losses? Seems totally unreal to me.

there not making money, because it costs way to fucking much to make an xobx

at 300 dollars they were making a little money, but now its down to 140 (or 150, i forget) so there just going to lose more (unless purchases sky rocket)

[bluedeath]

I guess they will have to offset their losses on the xbox with the rest of their 80 billion dollars of annual revenue.  Does anyone understand that MS can take constant losses for twenty five years and keep every employee with steady raises, bonuses, and benefits and not feel it at all.  They can't spend the money fast enough.  They quite literally don't know what to do with it all.

[melon]

they could give some to me. I really fancy an ipod mini.

[bluedeath]

QUOTE (beaumac @ Jul 15 2004, 07:38 PM)

they arent making now but the point of getting into video games is not about making profit NOW.   The video game industry has experience rapid and continuous growth every year from the debut of NES.  They know that the next generation of consoles are likely going to be the center of the living room in most american households.  In 5-10 years everything will run off of your videogame console/media pc in your living room so the market will be many times larger than it is now.  M$ is making its place now so that when there is a console in everyone's living room, its probably and xbox2 or 3...   Make sense now?

I agree but I think that They already have it.  It's called Windows Media Center (hmmmm.... sound familiar).  I think this product is going to explode.

[Asmodeus]

OMG......great scoop Gamester17 ..... awesome that this is on the front page here at XBS today....and he gets the scoop! LOL! Awesome.

Back to the point. I don't care if you are making 140 Zillion dollars at something else....why give money away? That is stupid. If you think that Sony and MS are going to be making money in the next generation you have not been reading the same leaked specs I have been reading. 3 IBM CPUs.....big bucks boys! There will not be any money made in the next console war either. So back to my point.....why bother? They have not brought me this incredible experience they keep refering to. The closest they come is BUYING Bungie (forcing them to release the *&^$ed up Halo for PC and Mac....because they are to busy supporting the owners XBox with Halo 2). All buying Bungie, Oddworld, and Rare did was limit who they could develope for. A lot of money to toss around for a feather in your cap. If you are not in the business to make money....you are in it to kill someone elses chances of making any. Sounds like MS moved from software (they killed Netscape....it used to cost money untill MS gave Internet Explorer away) to hardware. So the PLAN is to lose money untill Sony and Nintendo run out of it.....THAT WILL BE GOOD FOR GAMERS!!!! Gimme a break. IF MS had a first-party developement house I would shut up....but they bring NOTHING to the table. All they do is determine who sits at the table....and who sits in the good seats. SAD!!!!

[beaumac]

QUOTE (Asmodeus @ Jul 15 2004, 04:08 PM)

Back to the point. I don't care if you are making 140 Zillion dollars at something else....why give money away? That is stupid. If you think that Sony and MS are going to be making money in the next generation you have not been reading the same leaked specs I have been reading. 3 IBM CPUs.....big bucks boys! There will not be any money made in the next console war either. So back to my point.....why bother? They have not brought me this incredible experience they keep refering to. The closest they come is BUYING Bungie (forcing them to release the *&^$ed up Halo for PC and Mac....because they are to busy supporting the owners XBox with Halo 2). All buying Bungie, Oddworld, and Rare did was limit who they could develope for. A lot of money to toss around for a feather in your cap. If you are not in the business to make money....you are in it to kill someone elses chances of making any. Sounds like MS moved from software (they killed Netscape....it used to cost money untill MS gave Internet Explorer away) to hardware. So the PLAN is to lose money untill Sony and Nintendo run out of it.....THAT WILL BE GOOD FOR GAMERS!!!! Gimme a break. IF MS had a first-party developement house I would shut up....but they bring NOTHING to the table. All they do is determine who sits at the table....and who sits in the good seats. SAD!!!!

I dont see why having a first party development house is so important. Can you explain that aspect of it?  Youre right in thinking that they dont want to deliver this awesome experience for gamers. They dont give a shit about what gamers really want, they just want to do what they can to make the most MONEY.  But gamers will benefit from that, as evidence by the xbox' clear superiority over the PS2. Monopoly$oft doesnt care about anything but profits, sorry. If you think sony or nintendo are any different though you are SORELY mistaken.

[Asmodeus]

This is NOT an attack...just a question. IF MS wants to make money.....why build something that is losing it? Why are they throwing away all of this money just to kill Nintendo and Sony? Seems kinda stupid to me. IF you were a billionaire would you buy a conveneint store and sell everything at a loss just so you could jack the price up hard when they go out of business? Let's say you are that arse (and would)....what would you think of it from the consumer's position? HOW IS IT GOOD FOR ANYONE BUT MS? Need I remind you that OWNING an XBox does not make you a MS Employee. Do you see my point yet? WHAT GOOD CAN COME OF THIS IF MS WINS? Nintendo an Sega were the last 1st party companies.....used to be you bought the hardware to play the games the hardware maker made (In the case of Nintendo....I am sure a lot of sales are still this way). What will MS bring to the table? You don't think that when there is only ONE company (MS) that games will be better? They certainly will not be cheaper. See where I am going? How is this good for the gamer? My point about the 1st party games goes to the fact that MS brings nothing to the table....they mearly sell a machine (at a loss) and buy a bunch of companies. If Nintendo were doing this at least (and it still would be wrong) there is the fact that they bring Shigeru to the table...not to mention the other folks at the company. MS does not develope....they crush and buy.

I guess it comes to this. What if they competed with whatever company YOU worked for and practiced this unethically? Where will they stop? And isn't this illegal?

Ah well....I am done.

[beaumac]

They are losing money now to gain a place in the market, so that in 10 years they will be making a shitload of money offsetting today's loses.  You make a good point in that a lot of what they do is unethical, but it is legal for the most part.  They use a lot of anti-competitive tactics because they are so rich, but the dollar rules in this country and everyone has their price.  But its not just M$ that does this, most large corporations do the same thing, its the American (capitalist) way of business.

Ever shop at walmart? they're even more guilty of the subversive tactics

[The unProfessional]

They're considering making the xbox 2 a fully functional PC and selling it for several hundred dollars.  Let's hope it doesn't pan out.  The console market is for people who are looking to play good games on hardware that doesn't run them hundreds of dollars (or I'd just build a good PC for 300 bucks).

MS has been shady in the past, but there's nothing unethical about the Xbox.  What's wrong with making an investment for the future?  That's how business works.  It's a loss now, but the market share is priceless.  They gained the market share they have by releasing kickass hardware cheaper than competitors, at a huge loss.  In next gen consoles, they'll carry this market share over to actual profits and gains.  Great business strategy... and you've gotta have billions to do it.  Gotta take risks.

If you ask me, this is one of the most ethical strategies MS could use, since it doesn't involve any anti-trust issues whatsoever... at least not YET.

[nemt]

They spend too much on the wrong types of ads, this is their sole problem.

[The unProfessional]

Well their plan was to generate revenues through Xbox Live.  EA and other publishers didn't see eye-to-eye with MS.  If xbox live came down in price a bit more, I'd have it.  Mostly, I need halo 2 and half-life 2 first.

[Behemoth69]

QUOTE (nemt @ Jul 15 2004, 11:50 PM)

They spend too much on the wrong types of ads, this is their sole problem.

I have to agree. I dont think i've ever seen an Xbox tv ad that motivated me to purchese one.

[dazdastardly]

QUOTE (Behemoth69 @ Jul 16 2004, 07:25 AM)

I have to agree. I dont think i've ever seen an Xbox tv ad that motivated me to purchese one.

In the beginning (in the UK anyway). MS broadcasted some absolutely awesome adverts for the xbox, a good number were pulled after complaints though. So i think theyve desensitised themselves a bit... Which is a shame.

I remember one where this baby was born, it popped out like the scene from big fish and flew over miles and miles out the window, growing older and older ... finally it landed in a grave with the caption 'lifes short... play more' ...

Tis a shame because Sony have gotten away with more controvercy. MS are just targetted shamelessly... I mean being sued millions for bundling Internet Explorer and Media Player is the low of the low.

Back on Topic i think MS are seeking revenues from Live and Game/Peripheral purchases, but i dont think there gonna get too worried this time around nor the next time.

[Asmodeus]

QUOTE (001438 @ Jul 16 2004, 11:08 AM)

I honestly don't see how they are loosing money.  I mean really think about it. What do you think it honestly cost MS to make a single Xbox?  $20-25, and that is probably pushing it.  A $125 profit per Xbox isn't to bad. Just because it costs us Big bucks to purchase a 3Gb processor doesn't mean that it costs MS that much.  Bill Gates has his sweat shops going with young children who will work for pennies a day. I'll believe they are loosing money when I see the proof in writing.

I said I would stay out of this thread.....but you make me laugh. You think MS builds, packages, and ships an XBox for 20 to 25 bucks? LOL! PLEASE! They spend half of that on the controller! You ask for PROOF in writing (I am NOT going to mail you anything)....but take a look at the link I included in my original post. That comes from the horse's (arse...errrr) mouth. Also....read some of this quote:

"The Xbox 1 has underperformed in terms of projected sales. Forced to follow the price reductions of the Sony's and Nintendo's video game consoles, the Xbox price drop to $179 means that MS is making at least $100 loss on each console sold. The plan is to subsidise this with increased software sales, but this calculation may only provide positive resuls in years to come, and perhaps only with Xbox 2. Not unlike Sony's drive to develop a "home station" that would function as the center of a home entertainment system, MS plans to make the Xbox 2 the machine that will take over our living rooms, providing not only video game entertainment, but also online functions, and direct-to-disk digital TV recording. MS has deep pockets and may venture on undeterred of the moderate success of Xbox 1, but it may take Xbox 2 or even Xbox 3 or 4 before MS's plan for global domination of our living rooms becomes reality."

I found that HERE!

The REAL news about MS is that their next console (provided the rumors are true)....is really a Mac (or at least more like a mac than a PC). Kinda odd that they don't have any faith in Intel, AMD, OR themselves! I am hoping that this is good for the mac community (should create a few more programmers with PPC coding experience). You would think that MS would prefer to use there own OS to develop (I am digging that the Mac G5 is the development box for the XBox 2!). Isn't that a selling point to developer's right now? Being able to EASILY port PC code to the XBox? I suspect that MS is leaning towards a closed box NON-Intel/AMD system for Windows (kinda like Apple). Or else NONE of this makes any sense. I know....I know......off-topic.

[beaumac]

also, a lot of the loses that monopo$oft is taking is from the r&d and marketing from launching a new console. it will cost (comparatively) a lot less to bring the next xbox since people are already aware of it and the press coverage will be waaaaaaaaaaaaay greater