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[reli]

sorry, but the campaign in afghanistan yielded zero practical results, ok, the people might live better now (how the fuck do you know anyway, you saw it in cnn maybe?), but that war was not aimed at liberating the afghans as far as i was concerned.

the taliban is alive and well thank you very much, unfortunately of course.
i would like to see terrorists hanged as much as anybody but all that bombing was as efective in taking the terrorists down as a man trying to kill flyes with an axe.

[Rebel-Soul]

QUOTE (reli @ Mar 7 2003, 08:46 PM)

sorry, but the campaign in afghanistan yielded zero practical results, ok, the people might live better now (how the fuck do you know anyway, you saw it in cnn maybe?), but that war was not aimed at liberating the afghans as far as i was concerned. the taliban is alive and well thank you very much, unfortunately of course. i would like to see terrorists hanged as much as anybody but all that bombing was as efective in taking the terrorists down as a man trying to kill flyes with an axe.

Well if that is what you think then fine. However Bin Laden is in cognito and out of the picture for the menatyme. Nothing personal but it would not surprise me if half of you treehuggers were flaming liberals and demicrats. But, there are good demicrats i am one. you kno who Ii speak of.

[Rebel-Soul]

QUOTE (Achtung @ Mar 7 2003, 09:33 PM)

QUOTE sorry, but the campaign in afghanistan yielded zero practical results, ok, the people might live better now (how the fuck do you know anyway, you saw it in cnn maybe?) The TV tells Rebel Soul. Lizzard king and all other ignorent Americans that everything is great and they are the best and did such a great job with Afganaztan and everything there just a happy little country now thanks to them and they smile and pat themselves on the back and say Man America is just so great and live in there own little box. What a sad sad life.

Yes, I can think of one bad result. We suppressed the afganies so they could not blow you off the fucking planet.
P.S. your a deuche bag for believing the media

[Rebel-Soul]

QUOTE (Achtung @ Mar 7 2003, 10:05 PM)

QUOTE Yes, I can think of one bad result. We suppressed the afganies so they could not blow you off the fucking planet. P.S. your a deuche bag for believing the media You truly show your Intelligence here Rebel Soul, I have no idea how that is a response to what I said give your under developed brain time to prosses before you write something next time.

Actually you forgot to read between the lines in actuallity your argument is a media argument. But it seems you cant add 1+1

[tuckerthedog]

Yeah, I'd like to see Saddam pay for his alleged atrocities, though I think war in this case is really just an excuse to control a foreign country the same way we criticized the Soviets for doing with their own invasions and occupations during the cold war. I guess we should be asking what our net gain from all this will be. Pakistan is responsible for most of the real breakthoughs in the "war on terror." This Iraq nonsense will only increase the pressure on moslem countries NOT to coorperate with us. Outside our borders we are beginning to look like an aggressor nation. And that will only breed more terrorism. You can't fight ideology with war. How fucking stupid do you have to be, conservative or liberal, to think that you can put a bullet through a cause and wipe it out? In fact, attacking Iraq would probably do more to help Bin Laden's cause than anything any Al Qaeda sheep herder could do. Look at the problems Israel is facing with the Arab nations. Fat lot of good their efforts have made. We are stepping up to the plate and asking to be included in the father to son generational legacy of hatred the Moslem fundamentalists have for Israel. Up until now we have been a sort of theoretical "enemy by association." Now we're going to start the hands on killing. And for what? Our own western allies don't back us.

Nothing will rally people to the militant Moslem cause like losing family members and spiritual brothers. I'm sorry, but for any political stability we gain by attacking Saddam we are going to pay for in blowback from the Moslem fundamentalists. The stronger our military is, the greater their reliance on attacking us where it hurts is going to be.

http://faculty.stcc....301blowback.htm

That's a great article on why we're dealing with all this bullshit overseas.

[EasterEgg]

QUOTE (Skunky @ Mar 6 2003, 11:40 PM)

totally agree....  Bush has a wild hair up his ass for sadam..  since his father couldn't get the job done in the first place....  Look what these republican presidents do when in office. start wars even without the UN permission...kill the economy...etc...  can't wait tell 2006 to get a new prez...

imho when US attacks without UN permition ,the UN will split apart bcoz "if US doesnt follow rules ,why should the other countries fo it??"

its very  BAD  to ignore the UN...

[pjclark1]

I was under the impression that Russia defeated the
Germans in Europe during WW2........didn't the russians
wait outside Berlin for 2 weeks, while their allies USA + UK
tried to get there.

Its seems that Terrorism would go away if only the USA
would stop training them. (USA is biggest terrorist state
around these days)

Saddam Hussain...put in charge by CIA
Ben Lardy.....trained and financed by CIA
IRA financed by americans

Didn't the UN tell USA to stop acts of terrorism in Niceragua??

and what about the war criminals
Magaret Thatcher (sinking of the general belgrano while it was retreating)
Tony Blair (bombing civilian news company in Belgrade)

when are they going to be brought to justice for their war
crimes (as defined by Geneva Convention)

Seems to me, where ever trouble is in the world today, its
caused by the USA. Maybe thats why the USA refused to be
part of the international war crimes court.

[jasonmvt]

hey, i've got it.  Why don't we start an "I hate Euro-trash" thread where we go into detail about how they all fight for the scraps left from the US' table and then bitch when it's not their favorite meal.  We can throw all kinds of idiotic generalizations about European countries and their governments based on information we learned on the internet.  Then we can see how intellectuals like pjclark1 like dealing with the uneducated hordes.  I am glad America bashing is so PC right now for the rest of the world, and will be, until they need our help yet again.  How about realizing the stability of the civilized free world rests on the shoulders of The United States.  Further more, realizing the debt of gratitude most democratic nations of this planet owe to us.  Then maybe you will see that it is not only our standard of living that depends on our global involvement, but yours as well.

[Achtung]

[/QUOTE]I was under the impression that Russia defeated the

[Achtung]

QUOTE

As for Europe and all of them supposedly having the "right way" to deal with the situation. Let's see here... in WW-II most of Europe pretty much rolled over for the Axis. And I hear France is a great place to pick up old WW-II rifles, never fired and they've only been dropped once. We at least were willing to stand up for basic human rights, something very few others (except the Canadians, Brits, and a VERY few resistance fighters in the occupied countries) were willing to do. We at least were willing to draw a line and say "no further". What were they willing to do? Hrm... let's see either raise their hands in surrender and say "let's be friends", or try to profit off of the misfortune such as the Swedes did in WW-II. We were willing to sacrifice the lives of our own people for their freedom, and they were willing to roll over and say "let some one else do it". If that ISN'T cowardly I don't know what is. Personally I think the US should become insular again like we were just before WW-II. Raise tarrifs on imported goods so companies will go back to using American workers and products made in America, start pumping oil from our own lands again and tell the UM bugger off we're out of the whole world picture. Then we'll just wait and let Saddam and Korea nuke a couple of other countries before we think about stepping in and THEN we'll ONLY step in when we are asked to. Simple solution to the whole deal just start ignoring everything else outside ourselves. That will make for a better world.

   Another person educated by American TV. Excuse me when did WWII start,  1939 and when did the United States join the war, In 1944. As your Amercian president put it back then Hitler was Europes problem not the United States.
So as my family was getting slaughtered in Poland and countless others Americas interest for 4 years prior was selling equipment and supplies to the Allies to fight the germans Prophiting from there deaths because there deaths were not the US problem. Then only when it was going to be benificial for your country they joined and fought a army that had been fighting for 4 years prior and tell there people they won the war. You ignorent Americans make me sick you go off on how great your Country is when you do not know anything about History other then what they tell you On TV. Every war the US has taken by itself it has had its Asses handed to them ie. Vietnam. Hell the french had to bail you out fighting against yourselves.  America will only embark on a war when it benifits them not for the liberty of people as they say, or Humanity but to gain something from it for themselves ie the Oil. They dont give a shit about anyone or any other country but themselves( where the fuck was the US 5 years ago in Afganistan when the same things were going on to there people, how bout Sarajevo or any fucking war that doesnt have any insentives for America) Stop this garbage that America fights for freedom and oh so beautiful Liberty to give gods gift, because thats the biggest bullshit lie in the world and ever other country in this world knows that, thats why no one respects you or gives a rats ass about the States. And the reason you cant count on American product is because americans cant build shit and your country would completly die if that ever happened.

[pjclark1]

we in Europe are so grateful to America

Thank you for
Nuclear weapons and velcro

Thank you for
Using 3/4 of the worlds resources

Thank you for
executing your criminals
(beaten in numbers of executions only by the other 2 most civilized countries in the world, China and Iraq)

how could the rest of the world ever survive without these
contributions. Feel free to stay at home for the next 3 years
(but don't expect us to keep sending the oil/coal/minerals/etc.)

[jasonmvt]

QUOTE

I was under the impression that Russia defeated the Germans in Europe during WW2........didn't the russians wait outside Berlin for 2 weeks, while their allies USA + UK tried to get there.

wow, you are absolutely correct, things would have just worked out fine for Europe if the US had not entered the war.  Just like they did for Russia in WWI!  Did you forget the fact the Russia signed a non agression treaty with Germany only a few years earlier, much to the shock of the rest of the world?    And only entered the war because Germany changed its mind and decided to attack? Did you forget that Germany had to fight a difficult war on a second front to the west because of the US?  Did you also forget that Russia had zero air or sea power and without the impending forces from the western front  would have suffered an even greater amount of casualties than they already had? Is your judgement of history so clouded to actually say that Stalin-controlled russia was the defender of a free europe?   If Russia would have still won, do you think Stalin would have been content with just stopping at Germany with England and Frace already broken and without the US's participation?  You my friend, and your pal Achtung, are an idiot.  Even if your idea that the US was meaningless in the war against Germany was correct, had we not intervened, your great savior, Russia, would have controlled all of europe under the flag of communism.

[jasonmvt]

QUOTE

You ignorent Americans make me sick you go off on how great your Country is when you do not know anything about History other then what they tell you On TV.

then define for me what makes a country great?   Your contempt for America only reveals your obvious resentment of a successful nation.

QUOTE

thats why no one respects you or gives a rats ass about the States

then why are you here, posting about it.

QUOTE

And the reason you cant count on American product is because americans cant build shit and your country would completly die if that ever happened

here is where the real Achtung is exposed.  With a lack of options to continue your meaningless diatribe, you resort to broken english and swearing in a hope to somehow emphasize your nonexistent point.   Where do your feelings of inadequacy stem from?   Your country? Your lust for what you cannot and never will have?  Perhaps the media?  Do you hear me bashing where it is you hail from.  I am sure we could all find material to do that, but what's the point?  The fact that you are posting on Xbox forum (albeit a euro based one) shows the permeation of the American culture you hate so much.

[pjclark1]

I forgot to mention the American War for Independance
(for everyone in America as long as they were white)

Yes, that was a great war for freedom, shame it resulted
in slavery continuing in the USA for 50 years after everyone
else had given it up. Americans sure love freedom!

and has the US paid its NATO fees yet, I seem to remember
they haven't contributed for the past 10 years......I wonder
why they are still allowed to belong to the club, could it be
they are such warlike oppressors of democracy that no-one dares oppose them??

[jasonmvt]

QUOTE

you clearly do not have the mental capacity to debate any of the stated facts people put against you so you

what "facts" have you stated that are so irrefutable?  

QUOTE

trust me I have no lack of options to continue my statments just a knowlege that they are being wasted on people like you

what is it that you are trying to prove?  That the US is a horrible country?  You are the one with the axe to grind here, not me;  I am merely defending the country that I live in from the mindless zealots that seem hellbent on its demise.  

What is the meaningless pro-american crap that you refer to?  You refuse to acknowledge any aspects of the debate and resort to this? Yet you proclaim your intellectual superiority?  I argue points that other people make;  you choose to argue about the person making the point.  For a refresher, I enter the argument when people make either incorrect or idiotic statements (like 'Bush is stupid' and 'US is a bunch of morons').  Then you seem to get extremely upset by someone refuting them?  Would you not defend Canada if I began mounting an unfounded, uneducated campaign against it and it's people?  If your opinion differs, fine, that 's the point of a debate.  When your replies carry no other significance than ' you are like a 3 year old' though, you need to just hang your head and scurry away.