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[slowmaz]

Hi Gogo,

Mamedox Team is working on fixing the v-sync in mameox to match the xbox 15.7khz output...I believe that it was not ported correctly and still has the PC version VGA monitor Sync rates...maybe I am wrong..but I think this is what causes the "tearing" effect seen in "1942 Loopmaster in mameox"  when there is alot of sprites moving on any mameox game you can see that the sync is wrong...could you help us?

Britneypairs is the mamedox project manager you can maybe talk to him about what it should be

Thanx for the Psikyo!!!!

 

there is NO "tearing" in FBAxxx ...thats why i ask

[Tanas]

There doesn't seem to any problem with the vsync in 1944 Loop Masters, the tearing you are talking about in Mamedox is probably due to MAME being more processor intensive than FBAXXX, and if tearing only happens when there is a lot going on, on screen, I can bet you that it can be put down to the xboxes lack of proccesing power.

[TMaul]

QUOTE(slowmaz @ Mar 3 2005, 08:28 AM)

Hi Gogo,

Mamedox Team is working on fixing the v-sync in mameox to match the xbox 15.7khz output...I believe that it was not ported correctly and still has the PC version VGA monitor Sync rates...maybe I am wrong..but I think this is what causes the "tearing" effect seen in "1942 Loopmaster in mameox"  when there is alot of sprites moving on any mameox game you can see that the sync is wrong...could you help us?

Britneypairs is the mamedox project manager you can maybe talk to him about what it should be

Thanx for the Psikyo!!!!

 

there is NO "tearing" in FBAxxx ...thats why i ask

IMO, Its probably either one of the following things:
1) Like Tanas says, the xbox is not powerful enough for the way mame is emulating the games. (More than likely)
2) Your frameskip, vsync and possibly other video settings are wrong. (quite likely)
3) If the video init code in mamedox is anything like it is in MAMEoX then its possible that you might be able to improve the situation by messing around with some of the D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS you are using.

And you would be better off asking for help from Manto and not Gogoackman. Its clear that Manto was the brains behind the decent parts of FBAXXX, thats why it stopped working properly when he left the project.  

[HK$]

params.FullScreen_RefreshRateInHz = 60;
This line is after D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS, should it be 60Hz or 30Hz to work on a NTSC TV?
if the framerate is 60, then on the screen the line 1,3,5,7....will be the first frame, line 2,4,6,8...will be the second frame. Will that be the reason cause the tearing?

[slowmaz]

TMaul,,,,,


can you chip in on this one?...I know you can do it ...you showed us the way to set flicker and soften!!! that made mameox so much better.  Its not a frameskipping issue its a horizontal line in the center of the screen durring these heavy movement scenes..

for a better example look at Garou MotW on one of the fighting scenes where everything is moving fast...in the background...and other scrolling games ...I know this can be fixed cause it doesnt happen in pc MAME



Flicker Filter = 0
Soften = 0

 

[slowmaz]

WOW!!!

it should be either 15.7 or 32

you got it!!!
test those 2 out

[slowmaz]

im reading here that it should be 31

http://ultimarc.com/monfaq.html

this makes alot of sense also :

 The vertical refresh rate is a simple calculation: Hfreq divided by lines. Therefore as the number of lines is reduced, the vertical refresh rate goes up. So for a vertical resolution of 256, the vertical refresh would be 121Hz

...so how many vertical lines is the xbox outputing?

15.2Khz (xbox output to TV)  \  number of vertical lines in standard NTSC format

The NTSC standard has a fixed vertical resolution of 525 horizontal lines stacked on top of each other, with varying amounts of "lines" making up the horizontal resolution, depending on the electronics and formats involved. There are 59.94 fields displayed per second. A field is a set of even lines, or odd lines. The odd and even fields are displayed sequentially, thus interlacing the full frame. One full frame, therefore, is made of two interlaced fields, and is displayed about every 1/30 of a second.

so that would make it

32Khz
___

525vert lines          =          61HZ  


so try 61 also...maybe that extra 1 is what is missing  :luv:

This post has been edited by slowmaz: Mar 3 2005, 01:28 PM

[TMaul]

QUOTE(HK$ @ Mar 3 2005, 12:06 PM)

params.FullScreen_RefreshRateInHz = 60;
This line is after D3DPRESENT_PARAMETERS, should it be 60Hz or 30Hz to work on a NTSC TV?
if the framerate is 60, then on the screen the line 1,3,5,7....will be the first frame, line 2,4,6,8...will be the second frame. Will that be the reason cause the tearing?

Well, experimentation is the key but I would have thought that 60hz would be the right setting for NTSC. The XDK docs go over all that tho, so reading those would give you a better idea.

I would suggest messing around with FullScreen_PresentationInterval and SwapEffect as well. For example setting FullScreen_PresentationInterval to D3DPRESENT_INTERVAL_ONE_OR_IMMEDIATE can cause tearing if the hardware cannot finish drawing the frame in the time specifed by the refresh rate. This would happen if the emulation was eating into the cpu time put aside for drawing the image on the tv screen. Setting it to D3DPRESENT_INTERVAL_IMMEDIATE can also cause similar problems but in some cases fixes screen tearing but causes the sound to go out of sync.

Its all a matter of messing around until you find something that helps but it could turn  out that the xbox is not powerful enough, MAMEs frameskipping code is going crazy, etc. in which case no amount of tweaking the display params is going to help you.

This post has been edited by TMaul: Mar 3 2005, 01:26 PM

[BritneysPAIRS]

hi Tmaul...... your a good man want to help us build MAMEdOX any help would be great EBSay is the coder I put stuff toether and skin and HK$ is a patcher for Ebsay ....... id love if you 2 could write a few patchs for ebsay we are newbes.

If you want add me to MSN [email protected]     or PM me would love to let you help us build a better product your imput might be great as well

Cheers

[slowmaz]

after some team discussion we think it would be the best to make a "switch" in settings to change the value of "60" in that one Params line ...but we will have several options in the switch for testing purposes...   61,60,59,32,31,30,29   then we will test and remove the wrong values!!!

GO TEAM!

ps thanx Tmaul....you always know the code points...your a machine!

[Tulius]

 What about search the video settings in the old MameX source code? That version of mame was perfect with the refresh rate of the TVs...and I'm sure tearing its not related with CPU consuming because MameX played NeoGeo, CPS2 and Midway games without a hitch of tearing.
 What's more, Mameox is the only one Xbox emulator with screen tearing problems, xboyadvance and KI dont run at full speeds but dont suffer from vsync problems...

[lantus]

QUOTE(slowmaz @ Mar 3 2005, 11:12 AM)

WOW!!!

it should be either 15.7 or 32

you got it!!!
test those 2 out

except it wont work - valid values are 50/60 only

[TMaul]

QUOTE(lantus @ Mar 4 2005, 12:13 AM)

except it wont work - valid values are 50/60 only

As I suspected.

I've been thinking a little bit about this today. My first thought was that maybe the Mame drivers were not running at 60fps for the neogeo driver but this line:

CODE

MDRV_FRAMES_PER_SECOND(60) /* verified */

in the neogeo driver rules that out. So if the rendering code is working correctly (as in the display params are working to output at 60 frames per second) then the driver should be in vsync the same way that the xbox FBA ports are. I know for a fact that the FBA ports are fixed to run the games at 60fps for NTSC so this makes sense.

This only really leaves a bug or oversight somewhere in the MAME port code or the xbox is just not fast enough. I would suggest that you make sure you are using the asm version of the 68000 cpu core as from a speed point of view the xbox likes that more than the C 68000 core.

I don't have enough time to spend working on a MAME port at the moment but I do have a copy of the MAMEoX source that mess around with every so often. I'll let you know if/when I get something interesting working that you might find useful but I wouldn't hold your breath or anything.

And i'm sure there was something else but I seem to be a little drunk and have forgotten what it was.

[slowmaz]

hmmmm....i see it as more of a global bug than just related to one driver (neogeo)  but neogeo games are good examples because of the many fast moving sprites...at least we have some ideas of where to look...

thanx Lantus and TMaul

[Ebsy]

I remember this issue cropping up a few weeks ago on 1emu. Sammaz requested it there too funnily enough  

The first line I looked at when the issue arose was the FullScreen_RefreshRateInHz parameter, but as Lantus says the only valid values are 50 or 60 (or 0 if it's a windowed app...so rules that one out!.)

It could actually just be that the xbox isn't powerful enough to run mame and vsync effectively. I believe MAME-X never had this issue, but mame-x is based on an older mame core than mameox/mamedox, and remember that with every new version of mame released, it means more and more cpu cycles are dedicated to emulating the various systems.

With regards to mameox/mamedox, it's possible the swapeffect or PresentationInterval could be experimented with to get a better vsync rate. It's currently set to D3DSWAPEFFECT_FLIP for swapeffect and the presentationinterval is set to ONE_OR_IMMEDIATE if vsync is off, or 'IMMEDIATE' if vsync is on. Maybe this has something to do with it?.

I've tried with D3DPRESENT_INTERVAL_ONE and D3DSWAPEFFECT_COPY but there's no difference that I could see.

Anyway, I'll include the updated sources with the next release of mamedox.
http://mamedox.blogspot.com  < watch this space