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Author Topic: XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA  (Read 418 times)

The Zep Man

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2007, 07:18:00 AM »

QUOTE(DrPepperFan15 @ Jan 27 2007, 12:58 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870458' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />
So I'll also say thank you for getting us closer to softmodding and exploiting the Xbox 360 by releasing this little hint that proves homebrew and money combined still have a chance at hacking this 360!
If applicable at all, this brings us further from softmodding and exploiting the Xbox 360, because many would-be developers will trade the full, albeit less legal, development environment for a sandboxed environment, just because they can't wait until the machine is truly homebrew 'compatible'.

And I doubt that it will be possible to exploit the 360 using the XNA. Remember, you must be connected to Live. EVERYTHING will be monitored (one of the reasons that everything is so slow, perhaps). ph34r.gif
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mike96sc2

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2007, 11:37:00 AM »

I love the whiners on this page "ooh I want homebrew" Waaah.

$100 per year for 100% legal homebrew is a small price to pay, seriously. What nobody tends to realize is legal homebrew is what's going to actually push the limits, instead of a Warezed XDK and hacked bioses, etc. Everyone loves XBMC and the other original Xbox programs but they're also all illegal considered they were made using a Warezed development kit. This is giving those who want to play a chance to play and see what they can do, perhaps in the future we'll be able to spend points to download or play individual programs without the need for the full subscription. A quick and dirty port that runs at 70% of speed is pretty cool in my book, now once a little optimizing and tweaking is done then it will be pretty sweet.

To combat piracy Microsoft is giving everyone a legal alternative for their homebrew, now that's not good enough? I'd suspect people want a fully exploited Xbox 360 for more than just their homebrew.

Get off the high horses about how this is so uncool or whatnot because people don't desire to hack the Xbox 360 now. I'm going to go pretty far out on a limb and say most of the hacking community isn't interested in homebrew as much as they are getting their "back-up" to play.
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frieko

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2007, 12:12:00 PM »

QUOTE
Everyone loves XBMC and the other original Xbox programs but they're also all illegal considered they were made using a Warezed development kit.


If XNA can't even run a NES emulator without optimization, XBMC will NEVER run. This is just more evidence that XNA is just a bullshit PR move by Microsoft that has no real use.
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mike96sc2

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2007, 12:56:00 PM »

QUOTE(frieko @ Jan 27 2007, 11:19 AM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870728' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />

If XNA can't even run a NES emulator without optimization, XBMC will NEVER run. This is just more evidence that XNA is just a bullshit PR move by Microsoft that has no real use.

Damn I didn't realize how close in architecture the NES and X360 must be, that's the only way your logic would be even reasonable.

You're basing everything off a quick and dirty NES port? The guy spent what a few hours on it, he didn't even take the time to optimize or whatever else. XNA isn't the ultimate porting application, you do need to do some code-work. I can't just take the source to whatever and expect it to run perfectly.

Given the length of time XBMC has been worked on and available I'd say there's no reason anyone can't make something to blow it out of the water in roughly the same about of time.

Fuck, heaven forbid some of you people ever be a beta tester for a project. "Doesn't do it perfect right out of the box, must be impossible, time to whine like girls".

Considering the XNA kit is based off the actual developer kits I'd say it can do a lot more than we've seen yet.

It's the crybabies on here though about "we need to hack it" because we want homebrew and we don't want to use our legal options. Caustik had the same problem with the OpenXDK, nobody wanted to use it because it was easier to use warezed kits. The Dreamcast scene got it right, everyone else has been off base.

Finally.... bashing developers who do nothing more than something quick for fun sure turns them off to doing much of anything in the future, for the legal or illegal scene.  People enjoy a thank you once in a while, even if it's not what you want.
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gamehunter101

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2007, 01:10:00 PM »

this i s a great start considering its in xna
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d-range

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2007, 02:14:00 PM »

QUOTE(mike96sc2 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:03 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870775' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />
Damn I didn't realize how close in architecture the NES and X360 must be, that's the only way your logic would be even reasonable.


Dude, the NES has an 8 bit CPU at 1.7 Mhz (megahertz that is) or something like that, an xbox 360 has a 3Ghz triple-core CPU... Even a 486 can easily emulate a NES at full speed, even if the emulator is straightforward and unoptimized. Emulating something like a SNES is already 10 times harder, so don't even think about PSX.

QUOTE(mike96sc2 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:03 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870775' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />
Given the length of time XBMC has been worked on and available I'd say there's no reason anyone can't make something to blow it out of the water in roughly the same about of time.


Well for starters, XNA does not have full network access, so forget internet radio, media sharing etc. AFAIK sound and video access is also severely limited, so forget accelerated scaling or decoding. Writing codecs in XNA is simply impossible, so forget about decent video, let alone HD. Also, do you really think MS would allow a homebrew MCE competitor that's as good as XBMC on the 360??

QUOTE(mike96sc2 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:03 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870775' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />
Considering the XNA kit is based off the actual developer kits I'd say it can do a lot more than we've seen yet.


That's just utter BS  sleeping.gif

QUOTE(mike96sc2 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:03 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870775' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />
It's the crybabies on here though about "we need to hack it" because we want homebrew and we don't want to use our legal options. Caustik had the same problem with the OpenXDK, nobody wanted to use it because it was easier to use warezed kits. The Dreamcast scene got it right, everyone else has been off base.


You, sir, should try reading up on emulation and homebrew a little more. Comparing dreamcast or OpenXDK homebrew development, ie: native code running directly on the hardware, with a sandboxed interpreted environment like XNA shows that you know shit of what your talking about. Funny thing btw: there actually was a pretty good PSX emulator for the dreamcast that ran at near full-speed, so maybe that makes it a little easier for you to realize the difference between native code and sandboxed bytecode like XNA.
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bucko

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2007, 02:28:00 PM »

Great start, now we need a C64 emulator biggrin.gif.
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krawhitham

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2007, 02:34:00 PM »

QUOTE(mike96sc2 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:03 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3870775' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />

Damn I didn't realize how close in architecture the NES and X360 must be, that's the only way your logic would be even reasonable.

You're basing everything off a quick and dirty NES port? The guy spent what a few hours on it, he didn't even take the time to optimize or whatever else.


If XNA can not emulate a 1.79Mhz 6502 CPU at full speed using unoptimized code then XNA as a homebrew platform is pretty much garbage.
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tutu

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2007, 03:03:00 PM »

Kudos to the author for taking for the time and effort to port this over to XNA. It is really is a step in the right direction, do not lose sight of this because of Microsoft's imposed limitations..

I just wish Microsoft would allow us to run this our 360 for free. Then it would be  pop.gif with a bit of optimization.
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47_M450N_47

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2007, 03:39:00 PM »

Are there any plans that anyone knows of for an XNA Express kit or something that would just launch programs that other people make?  I don't want to pay 100 freaking dollars.
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infamous_Q

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2007, 05:11:00 PM »

i tend to agree with most people on this. while its awesome that someone managed to port an NES emulator through XNA...xna is weak man. you'll never see XBMC running through XNA, regardless of how long its developed for. Unless MS really REALLY opens up the system to us, then homebrew is a no no without somesort of hacking to allow us full access to the system. Im starting to wonder if MS realizes just how much they could make by selling an actual XBMC created by them. a Vista media center port would be awesome (espcially since IPTV is coming, and the vista media center interface is freakin slick). sell that as a disc or on live and they'll make mad money (provided it allows all codecs, w/updates for codecs, and will work with external drives or through network access). thats my opinion on that one.
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mike96sc2

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2007, 07:47:00 PM »

QUOTE(dmitri @ Jan 27 2007, 05:14 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3871121' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />

A good NES port at 100% speed is definately possible.  People can't spend the time to do any research immediately bad mouth a great first effort.  Optimizing can lead to 100%, even 1000% gains.  You can't learn Chinese and expect to become Major of Japan.

He still needs to:

- Code cleanup (Garbage collection, iterration, etc. work a little differently on XNA)
- Optimize code for 360 hardware
- Optimize graphics for DX9
- Weight the benefits of managed code

Great work on the emulator!  Homebrew is alive and well on the 360..

Exactly, people are saying XNA is shit because he did nothing but throw the code at the port in an hour or two tops.

I think 99% of the whiners just want a hacked console for piracy. It's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Btw, the next asshole who says I don't know shit about emulation or emulators such as the Dreamcast scene where they used a 100% legal development environment vs. the Xbox scene needs to produce their own NES emulator for the Xbox.

To the whiners. Put up or shut up. If you don't like XNA, then hack the Xbox 360 yourself, don't troll the forums though.
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Alkane

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2007, 08:06:00 PM »

QUOTE(mike96sc2 @ Jan 27 2007, 07:54 PM) http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=3871240' class='bbc_url' title=''>http://forums.xbox-scene.com/public/style_images/master/snapback.png' alt='View Post' />

Exactly, people are saying XNA is shit because he did nothing but throw the code at the port in an hour or two tops.

I think 99% of the whiners just want a hacked console for piracy. It's pretty pathetic if you ask me.

Btw, the next asshole who says I don't know shit about emulation or emulators such as the Dreamcast scene where they used a 100% legal development environment vs. the Xbox scene needs to produce their own NES emulator for the Xbox.

To the whiners. Put up or shut up. If you don't like XNA, then hack the Xbox 360 yourself, don't troll the forums though.


The point is, even if the emulator was written completely crappy, it should easily play at full speed.  Its hard to fathom, even without optimizations, that an NES emulator would run at anything but full speed.  This just goes to show how horrible the XNA framework environment really is.

Its unfortunate, but we may never see N64 or PlayStation emulation using the XNA framework.
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luther349

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2007, 10:56:00 PM »

then your no coder. unoptimized code and run relly relly slow. even a 8 bit emulator. i have done 2d games in my time and unoptiized it runs like shit on my 1.8 mhz pc but optmized it runs fine in a 486. why couse it was memery leaking like crazy cousing everything to slow down to a crawl cpu usage 99% when i was done it was down to like 2%. the point is raw code like this is very very slow no matter what it is running on. i bet the emu is even slow on a windows pc.

weather it is ust the raw code or the xna i still think is guess work. beingi have seen some compleated xna apps i would say its couse its a raw port once someonepicks up on it and cleans it up it would get gains in the thousands when it comes to speed. as for sound that might be a bit harder.
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xtreme_360fw

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XNA SharpNES - the first NES Emulator for Xbox 360 and XNA
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2007, 11:10:00 PM »

It's a start at least!  It shows that the "sandbox" enviroment may not be so limited.  Now, i'm dying to get ready to learn some C# and see how I can possibly contribute with these kinds of projects.  This is definitely a good sign in the meantime!  It has begun!

=Xtreme=
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