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[vinman]

I played gears of war 2 offline and my saves and profile for offline are on a Mem card.  if i pull the mem card and throw my HDD in that has my online profile and game saves of only geniune games only do you think they would know ?  Is there an area on the 360 where they log things that are not accessable to us?

Vinman

[BoNg420]

QUOTE(utopaline @ Nov 12 2008, 02:23 AM)

good for them!!! keep banning, if you wanna Mod go right ahead (I have 2 moded original xbox's) but stay clear of live. I (like most people) pay for my games and enjoy doing so to support the people that make the games. I also know the headache that Moding on Live caused with the original Xbox, and maybe they are jsut stopping it before it comes to that again.
Utopaline

It wasn't having a modded xbox that can play burned games or games off the HDD that hurt XBOX 1.  It was people taking DLC off their HDD and modding maps for different games that hurt it.

QUOTE(soopahfly @ Nov 12 2008, 06:14 AM)

I find it amusing that people think that getting banned is a great injustice.  There's no denying playing pirate games is theft.  Hell, I did it myself on my 1st 360, got banned and Manned the f*ck up and bought another.
All these people whinging about the price of games, $40-$50 is not expensive.  Lets do a direct comparison with the UK, substitute your $ for £ and you have the cost.  That's right, $80-$100.

If people are making minimum wage $40-50 is expensive to them.  They make what $6 something an hour.  Thats only like $240+ bux a week.  If they have bills to pay, then $40-50 for something that is not needed is expensive.  I can pay for a game working about 3 hours.  A person working a minimum wage job will have to work 1 full 8 hour day just to make enough, and maybe even need 1-2 hours more to buy a game.  So tell me that's not expensive...

QUOTE(orangpelupa @ Nov 12 2008, 07:25 AM)

"keep gameplay safe and secure for our community"

lol thats weird, is playing backups make the community not safe and insecure?

They say to to put fear in the community and make the community think they did something that will help them.  Also maybe MS thinks if the community hears people talking about modding their console and playing burned games, maybe people will report them.

QUOTE(phunk @ Nov 12 2008, 11:56 AM)

This is xbox-scene, not piracy-scene, therefore users are allowed to discuss any xbox related news and issues, not just moan about Live bans. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Lay off the glue please. Its obviously affecting your judgement.  

Yes its not piracy scene.  But this site is mostly to do with hacking, modding, or cosmetic mods for your console.  The average xbox fan will most likely not come here for non-modding related news, because most stories that aren't related to modding are related to sales #'s and 3ROL issues, nothing to exciting if you're not into modding your system.

[Illrigger]

As someone who modded their original 360 and was lucky enough to be able to return it after it RROD'd (Costco FTW), I can say that there *is* an allure to being able to just go and grab the game from a torrent/newsgroup and get at the game.

That being said, I decided not to mod the new 360 when I got it.  In the end, between buying the "must have" titles on launch day, and waiting a couple months to get the "that looks good" ones used (and waiting for the 25% off coupon weeks at Gamestop), I don't end up burning up THAT much money on games.  And the games I do get are usually worth what I pay -  crappier games drop in price used faster than new ones, so you can usually tell a month or two after release what games are worth getting.  

It's all about using your head and not lusting after a game on launch day.  If you expect that a game isn't going to include a lot of single player action and you aren't into playing online, then don't buy it on launch day.  Wait for used, what are you missing out on?

As for those who say that developers get nothing for used vs pirated, that's BS.  When I buy used, they got their money for that copy of the game.  If I pirated, they didn't.  When I buy used, I don't feel guilty - I think of it as the devs getting two half price sales rather than one full price.  That's how capitalism works - if they wanted me to spend full price, they should have competed better with the games that I *did* pay full price for.  They want me to pay $60 for GoW2?  Then they damned well better give me the same 100+ hours of single player that I got from Fallout 3, Fable 2 and SC4.  Since I don't plan on playing much multi-player with it, I'll be holding off and buying it used for $45 after 25% off coupon in a month.  If it turns out I don't like it, I have 7 days to take it back for full credit - which I also can't do if I buy new.  The return policy alone makes me hold off on some titles, like GTA4.  I have kids at home, and being able to to return it for full credit after realizing that the only time I would get to play it was after they went to bed was a blessing.

Third option, of course, is Gamefly - if you happen to live somewhere where you can use it.  For half the cost of a new game a month, you get to play all those short games you would normally regret buying and get crap in trade-in for.  It's not an IDEAL service, you don't get games on launch day, you don't always get the game you want when you want it, but if you can't afford to buy the games it's legal and you won't get kicked off Live for doing it.

Bottom line?  Piracy isn't your only option.  It may be your only FREE option, but resorting to theft isn't the only way to go if your funds are limited.

[dramradhel]

"As for those who say that developers get nothing for used vs pirated, that's BS.  When I buy used, they got their money for that copy of the game.  If I pirated, they didn't.  When I buy used, I don't feel guilty - I think of it as the devs getting two half price sales rather than one full price. "

This is wrong. Take some time to Actually talk to the people at your local game retailer. The developers and producers get NOTHING for used games.

Used games are bought from consumers for low low prices, and sold at ALMOST new prices for huge profits for the retailer. There is no system in place for the developers to get anything from a used game sale.

I am not advocating piracy. I am just saying that Used games hurt just as bad as piracy does. This is why Sony is pushing so hard to do digital delivery of games: No used games on shelves.

Want to support your game developer? Preorder, and buy brand new, or pick up a copy from BestBuy or Target or something.

[Taken83oveR]

Why should they? Get paid twice for the same copy? Rubbish. I know every time one of my kids picks up a toy, and then soon grows tired of it, and gives it to one of my younger children, I don't have to go pay the retailer again. Its your copy. You own it. If you no longer want it. Sale it to someone who does, and save them a few $$$ in the process.

[frieko]

QUOTE(Arakon @ Nov 12 2008, 08:23 AM)

how the hell would MS know you have done the fix?

Simple, they just ban any console that actually still works  

[Illrigger]

I disagree, and your logic does not hold up.

User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller.  User "B" buys used copy.  Total money that developer sees?  Their share of $60/2 users.

User "B" *pirates* the same game.  Total money that developer sees?  ZERO.

Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.

The net gain of them blocking piracy?  Probably a decent percentage of sales.  People who spend nothing now will make room in their budgets for a few games - not every one they stole, but at least the big ones will get bought.

The net gain from blocking used sales?  Probably not much, as those users already pick an choose what games they are willing to pay full price for, and every 3-4 games they can get used *might* equate to ONE new sale over the same period - *if* they bother to save that money up over the same time period.  It will probably even eat into their full price sales a bit, as a lot of users buy full price knowing that they will be trading in within two weeks and using that trade-in money to buy another full price game.  In the end, it will probably have a NEGATIVE impact on profits for them.

Blocking used sales and rentals also significantly impacts their distribution channels - Gamestop/EBGames/Game Crazy would go out of business in a single quarter without used sales, and Gamefly would cease to exist at all instantly.  Discounted game sales at Target/Bestbuy are NOT a replacement for buying used, and I can assure you that tthe copy I bought of "The Club" at target last month for $12.48 didn't put one red cent in a developer's pocket.

Developers need to get around the used market in a different way - and that different way is by offering decent DLC, and double-dipping people for it when they buy used.  After all, the more people that buy the same DLC off one retail copy, the more profit they make from the DLC - and I am willing to bet that the devs get a higher percentage of the profits from DLC than they do from the retail sale of the game itself.  Or do you honestly think the devs haven't made well more more money off the $100+ I have spent on tracks from Rock Band than they lost from me buying it used?

[DaddyLongLegs]

QUOTE(Taken83oveR @ Nov 12 2008, 07:44 PM)

Why should they? Get paid twice for the same copy? Rubbish. I know every time one of my kids picks up a toy, and then soon grows tired of it, and gives it to one of my younger children, I don't have to go pay the retailer again.

Awful analogy. There aren't gigantic used toy stores making up a huge place of the toy sales market.

[Blackhawk163]

QUOTE(Illrigger @ Nov 12 2008, 03:23 PM)

I disagree, and your logic does not hold up.

User "A" buys a game from store for $60, then sells it to reseller.  User "B" buys used copy.  Total money that developer sees?  Their share of $60/2 users.

User "B" *pirates* the same game.  Total money that developer sees?  ZERO.

Therefore, used games give the devs an infinite % more money than a pirated one does.

The net gain of them blocking piracy?  Probably a decent percentage of sales.  People who spend nothing now will make room in their budgets for a few games - not every one they stole, but at least the big ones will get bought.

The net gain from blocking used sales?  Probably not much, as those users already pick an choose what games they are willing to pay full price for, and every 3-4 games they can get used *might* equate to ONE new sale over the same period - *if* they bother to save that money up over the same time period.  It will probably even eat into their full price sales a bit, as a lot of users buy full price knowing that they will be trading in within two weeks and using that trade-in money to buy another full price game.  In the end, it will probably have a NEGATIVE impact on profits for them.

Blocking used sales and rentals also significantly impacts their distribution channels - Gamestop/EBGames/Game Crazy would go out of business in a single quarter without used sales, and Gamefly would cease to exist at all instantly.  Discounted game sales at Target/Bestbuy are NOT a replacement for buying used, and I can assure you that tthe copy I bought of "The Club" at target last month for $12.48 didn't put one red cent in a developer's pocket.

Developers need to get around the used market in a different way - and that different way is by offering decent DLC, and double-dipping people for it when they buy used.  After all, the more people that buy the same DLC off one retail copy, the more profit they make from the DLC - and I am willing to bet that the devs get a higher percentage of the profits from DLC than they do from the retail sale of the game itself.  Or do you honestly think the devs haven't made well more more money off the $100+ I have spent on tracks from Rock Band than they lost from me buying it used?

Stores like Target Walmart etc, have already bought the game therefore the developer already has received their cash. If anything Target and company lost a portion of their money on the sale. So in a way you are correct that the sale did not make a dent in the devs pocket. If that's what you meant then you are correct, if not, well, then your assurance just fell flat.

[Illrigger]

QUOTE(DaddyLongLegs @ Nov 12 2008, 12:26 PM)

Awful analogy. There aren't gigantic used toy stores making up a huge place of the toy sales market.

No, but there are tens of thousands of used car lots out there, and buying a used Ford doesn't usually give Ford any money (unless you fall for that whole "certified pre-owned" line of BS, which actually means "used, but with extra profits for the dealer and manufacturer factored in").

[evolver360]

I'm a friend of bongs and i just never bothered to post untill today and ill tell you why!!

I know for FACT that microsoft has not done any new secuirty measures for xbox live and only saying that they have took new action to add confusion to this situation.

The real reason people are getting banned is because they have pirated downloaded games that was the unfinished or review version of the game that did not read like a original game their for getting you banned!!

Their is no need to come in the forums and lie people and say you just got banned for no reason or you never pirated because you are a liar and i hope as soon as this fact is public knowledge that the xbox-scene mods use their ban hammer and ban the people who say they got banned from xbox live.

If you had not broken the law and made copys of your store bought games with the kreon drive the real reason their is a firmwire hack in the first place is to make a legit back up of your store bought games to protect your investment not to steal games that you don't own a legit copy of!!

The people that got their console banned got their greedy stealing hands on downloadable game that was not a retail version and did not have the correct security measures to get past xbox lives checks.

Thats all im going to stay im not saying witch game if you had not pirated your 360 wouldent be banned right now!!

[Illrigger]

QUOTE(Blackhawk163 @ Nov 12 2008, 12:31 PM)

Stores like Target Walmart etc, have already bought the game therefore the developer already has received their cash. If anything Target and company lost a portion of their money on the sale. So in a way you are correct that the sale did not make a dent in the devs pocket. If that's what you meant then you are correct, if not, well, then your assurance just fell flat.

Ture, but not true.  

Are you HONESTLY naive' enough think that Wal-Mart loses money on ANY sale?  That would assume that profits get SMALLER down the distribution chain, which is most certainly not the case.  Margins at the top of the chain are smallest, and the retailers are the sharks.  Without retailers, distrubutors, manufacturers and developers/inventors don't have the means of reaching the market.  They set their margins, not the people selling to them.

Big retailers like Target negotiate their profits BEFORE they receive stock.  If you see a copy of a game with a red tag at Target, Target isn't losing money on it.  They bought 10 copies of the game, and negotiated with EA to sell them with a reduced margin; in effect they usually end up with one copy that is free.  If Target doesn't sell 8 of 10 copies, they sell whatever is left to a consignment sales company at wholesale - their price before their retail markup, but after their incidental markups like renting self space to the company that makes the game, usually EBay/Half.com/Amazon shops nowaday (you *do* know that EA/MS/Sony pays retail stores rent on square footage in their stores, right?).  If they look at the numbers and they've made enough money on a lot purchase, it will not be worth their time to consign it off, and they leave it in store and mark it down, anything they make on the sale is "beyond margin" (i.e. "profit").  That's how they can justify it eating up shelf space that could be rented to a supplier, and slowly mark it down until someone buys it - no matter what price the tag says, they make money on it.

So, you're partially right.  It didn't *directly* put a dent in the devs' pocket, it put that dent before the disc was ever made, when Target first negotiated with the distributor to put the game on the shelf.  And that last copy sitting at Target with a red tag was the end result of the reductions in price all along the distribution chain, meaning that only Target made money on it.

[x YNWA x]

QUOTE(Guidor @ Nov 12 2008, 10:27 AM)

Good for MS.  Mod your drive and face the consequences.  We all know those who mod the drive are doing so in 99.9% of cases to play pirated games.  If you cant afford the games don't buy the console.

Its not a case of not being able to afford the games, most people can. I in fact used to spend around £4000 a year on games. I got sick of paying £40 for a game only for it to turn out crap or for it to last something pathetic like 6 hours.  

I firmly believe if that all games were released as trial versions then there would be no piracy at all. People would play the trial version and if they liked it they would purchase an activation code for the rest of the game, simple concept. The publishers are just too lazy and milk it for crappy games so its their own fault that people download games.  All this crap about stay off xbox live if you use copied games, I really do not know why people say that. Ive been banned once in 2 and a half years and used games online each time before release date too.

[Reaper527]

QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 09:55 AM)

Well, if you're not modding to play pirated games then you wouldn't be using a custom firmware to begin with. It's only for piracy

i take it you don't like guitar hero? it is possible to do custom songs on guitar hero and rockband on a modded 360, as the songs can be replaced without breaking the digital signature on the xex file. (rockband2 may require breaking this signature, unless another method is found)

[LEON007]

QUOTE(pholly @ Nov 12 2008, 03:22 PM)

No, the point is to stop pirating or stay off live. I don't want to play online with thieves.

Xbox is MS product so they must take some necessary security precaution. They don't able to stop hacker to hack there console. I think its there fault not hackers. If you forgot 100 bucks on your door step and if any one see it then he will take it. Its MS product and its there responsibility to secure it.

Look at PS3 its not hacked yet. Sony doing there work well.


@pholly

For your information many former hacker and cracker from scene are taken by many big companies. They are purchased. So basically if you buy an original product (GAME) then there is a high chances to buy a thieves work.

Ohhh what pholly do now??? Abandoned the original games or fight back??
If you want to know then must see the thrilling reply of pholly. (Hope he will)