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[cchance]

Uggh where to even start in this stupidity.

A. Divx support isnt 100 lines of code... and The reason it wasnt added is NOT because of technical reason but LEGAL, they would need to figure out a way to license the divx codec for the 360 which hasnt been a high priority to date, and no xvid is under a bunch of patent and legal issues right now so thats out of the way as well. Microsoft cant just add something like that their are reprocussions for a company of Microsofts size.

B. Give me a f*cking break, you guys want 7.1 DTS and TrueHD etc etc and the best HDDVD output ever? GET A STANDALONE! Thats like buying a ps2 because you wanted dvd playback... The HDDVD addon is made to be a cost effective way into the hidef market plane and simple. Theirs a reason their are 2000$ hddvd players and theirs reasons their are 3000$ bluray players... If you guys honestly think the ps3 is gonna give you 100% of the bluray playback you've got another thing coming to you.

C. Theirs something you are neglecting to realize from what i've heard they are also planning on releaseing the PC drivers to use the drive on HDDVD capable pc's (dualcore etc) don't think a ps3 can do that last i checked.

D. Its not the damn fans, i have 2 360's and my brother has 1 ... its the 12x DVD drive that is loud... the fans i can never hear ever unless your somehow sitting directly next to the box and 3" from your tv

E. Who exactlys having problems with HDTV LCD's and the 360? Plug in VGA and set resolution works for everyone i know that has one... if you want component better check your tv manual to see what it REALLY supports via component end of story.

F. Screw HDMI and the ICT ... it was delayed until 2012 well after the 360 and ps3 are done being primetime, and i'd rather have seperate cables for my audio than joined on a single cable but thats me.

AND FINALLY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY....

G. HDDVD IS WINNING... visually hddvd is whiping the floor with bluray movies, its been in all the reviews to date that hddvd has a crisper image with better special features and even their upscaling of dvd's has been superior... On top of that HDDVD media released and on the schedule for release is 3x as high as planned bluray releases, then theirs the important numbers... HDDVD movie sales in september (dont know the oct numbers) were up to 11 to 1 over bluray... up from augusts 8 to 1 sales rate of hddvd movies... not to mention hddvd is way ahead in hardware sales anyway... and that all was BEFORE the hddvd addon for the 360 started selling out everywhere... remember microsoft said 10M consoles by year end which by recent projections by the end of 06 they should be able to just break that 10M milestone... What does that mean?? That means 10 MILLION potential HDDVD users that can easily get a hddvd player for 200$ vs a ps3 for 600 (or bluray standalone for around 1000$) or even a hddvd standalone for 500-600$

So lets see... hddvds wining in reviews, winning in sales, winning in price... hmm ya i'll stick with my HDDVD addon, and maybe if i ever decide to go all out ill buy a STANDALONE player for my media room... once theirs a definite winner... until then i'll remember 1 important fact

BetaMax and BluRay's storys seem extremely close, on top of a nasty line of failures from sony

SACD, MiniDisk, UMD, Memory Stick & MemoryStick Duo & BetaMax... and people want to put their money on the bluray because of the ps3? I recall people saying the UMD was destined to be a universal media because of the psp and all the psp had to offer... lol ya uh huh sure

[cchance]

QUOTE(Caldor @ Nov 4 2006, 11:30 PM)

Sony realised the importance of HDMI and changed it for inclusion across the whole product range.

This 2010 rumour about ICT is only valid AFAIK in one country - Japan. Don't discount the tendency of studios and distributors to pressure and dominate the market. Afterall look at whay HDMI came along in the first place.

DD+ and TrueHD isnt about more speakers - it's about studio grade audio.

LOL no sony saw microsoft was releasing 1080p support on their box and had to retailiate by saying "ya they have 1080p "truehd" but we have hdmi" ... in the end who gives a crap.

LOL With a large majority of tv's not supporting ICT and with many analysts all saying ICT is delayed till 2010-2012 at earliest its not exactly important... and no it wasnt just Japan dont know where you got your information from it was a WORLDWIDE DELAY, and from a few discussions microsoft has already stated that it believes even after 2012 they dont forsee the ICT being activated because by forcast estimates only about 50-60% of households will support it even by 2010

[silentbob343]

QUOTE(cchance @ Nov 5 2006, 02:03 AM)

ugh god I don't want to get in to this.  You realize you are starting more bullshit with that post.

[Caldor]

There is no assurance the ICT will be implemented earlier than 2010, apart from Japan where it is law. Your are factually incorrect on that point.

I'm glad you have money to burn on a standalone - I would rather put my money into a better display. Ask yourself this - is the hardware in the Toshiba standalones more powerful than the 360? Actually it is not. The only thing holding it back from being an excellent HD-DVD solution is HDMI hardware support.

If you had more experience in digital video you would know what many standalone dvd players work poorly - for example in deinterlacing which is a difficult thing to do well. Tests has shown modern NVIDIA and ATI graphics card exceed all but the $US2000+ plus DVD player performances with scaling and deinterlacing.

The 360 uses Ati's AVIVO platform and has the GPU acceleration and other features found in HTPCs.

Too many people make the mistake of falsely assuming a consumer electronics device is inherently better if it's a standalone.

Who gives a crap you ask? Well for people who arent children/young adults who try to appear on forums talking about subjects they have no professional experience in, these people are attracted to:

1. Complete protection from ICT
2. 1080P via HDMI is 100% universally supported for all native 1080P displays the same cant be said for vga or component.
3. TrueHD
4. DD+
5. DTS-HD
6. Less costs for high quality cabling in one cable for video and audio instead of up to 11 cables which when using broadcast quality cabling quickly adds up in price.

[crazyfoo]

all you people talking about 96khz need to understand that 90% of people can't tell the difference.. 90% of people listen to 44.1khz mp3s...

Read nyquist's sample theorem

[youloseagain]

QUOTE

re-encoding into dolby digital what a waste.

DTS has a higher bandwidth and sampling frequency. It's bandwidth is 1.5mbits per second where as dolby digital's is only 468kbits per second. Sampling frequency for DTS is 96khz and DD is only 48khz.

 
agree take DTS over DD any day. As for hdmi. What you guys want to support the move to DRM? Please analog vs digital isnt a big dfference. 1080p over Vga sounds great and Tos or SPDIF is good enough for now. Most people's snr and noisefloors dont justify having 7.1 or more channel surround and If you do have mono block tube amps and preamps well then get a standalone hd-dvd unit! The more things a device does the less it does any of them well.

[grug]

QUOTE(cchance @ Nov 5 2006, 07:03 AM)

Uggh where to even start in this stupidity.
...

B. Give me a f*cking break, you guys want 7.1 DTS and TrueHD etc etc and the best HDDVD output ever? GET A STANDALONE!

Well you've just demonstrated your stupidity right there.

Encoding high-quality DTS and uncompressed LPCM material, let alone 24/96, TrueHD etc or other hires audio in software and then re-encoding it to a comparatively low quality Dolby Digital stream is a MAJOR step backwards. The original PS2 and Xbox could passthrough LPCM and DTS at least, and it looks like this piece of shit will force DD on everyone. The quality drop is unacceptable. Transcoding from one lossy codec to another lossy codec is unacceptable. It's not too much to ask that the audiostream in question is passed unmolested to your receiver.

QUOTE(amb7247 @ Nov 5 2006, 04:07 AM)

I thought DD and DTS was the difference where one is a compressed format and the other is not.

Both are compressed, lossy codecs, but DTS is higher quality because it uses a higher bitrate (768 or 1536kbps for DTS vs 384 or 448kbps for Dolby) thus doesn't have to remove as much audio information when and also supports 24-bit/96kHz audio (using DTS 2496).

[Madskilz182]

I've been reading this thread for 2 days now and I'm really getting tired of this argueing.  Everybody is doing math and calculations, and debating about encoding of audio and blah blah blah.  Guys if you don't think its worth your money, don't buy it and let that be that.  Its also very possible with the next  dash upgrade that the problems you people have with audio could be fixed and more to your liking.  They improve with every dashboard upgrade.  You may not get it all at once but give it time.  If you think you prefer Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, thats fine, go for it...... but quit starting lame ass debates about which is better.  Just say, I think I like Blu-Ray or I think I want an HD-DVD player and let that be that.
Personally I'm gonna buy the 360 HD-DVD drive... later on I may even choose to get a Blu-Ray player.  But im not going to sit at home and cry because  as of the moment the 360 HD-DVD is outputting in DD.  The world is going to keep rotating.  If you think you get more of what you want for your money from a PS3 go for it.  Just quit bickering back and forth, its pitiful....

[thax]

Standalone players are the way to go. I have personally burned out several DVD players, the lasers and motors go because of the amount of use they get.

It would really suck to use your PS3 as a blu-ray player all the time and have the components worn out due to excessive use. The x360's extra drive somewhat mitigates this problem by having an extra drive, you can get twice the runtime with 2 drive units.

If you really watch a great deal of movies then I would avoid using the PS3 as your main player, with a MTBF of about 10,000 hours you will need to be replacing parts of buying a new unit down the road.

I would rather have a dedicated hybrid player that supports both formats, I won't be getting any player until that happens. In addition the hybrid players usually support multiple file formats, I could burn lots of divx or wmv files on a blu-ray or hd-dvd disc depending on what media is the cheapest.

Those on the blu-ray or hd-dvd bandwagon are making sub-optimal choices.

[JohnnyVegas]

QUOTE(puppydg68 @ Nov 5 2006, 09:17 AM)

Also just for completeness here, because I'm stick of people always throwing out how expensive PS3 is:
$299 (core) + $199 (hd-addon) = $500
$399 (premium) + $199 (hd-add) = $600

In Xbox world for $500 you get
Wired Controller, no hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS3 world for $500 you get
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Blu-Ray, HDMI
In Xbox world for $600 you get:
Wireless Controller, 20 GB hard drive, Audio Crippled HD-DVD, NO HDMI

In PS world for $600 you get
Wireless Controller, 60 GB hard drive, Built in Wifi, Blu-ray, HDMI, Memory reader Slots

You forget a few important features with the 360..

IT ACUALLY HAS GAMES!! The PS3 will not have a nice title till next holiday at least and by that time the 360 games will be well formed and have larger inventory.

You also get access to the best Online service in the gaming community.

You also get a good track record of quality parts and service unlike Sony parts (hello PS2, TV, stereos of late).

Migration with your existing Media Center and home PC's (MCE/Vista) and more options for better intagration in the future. As home PC becomes more intagrated so will your 360.

PC (ms Studios) online gaming will be intergrated with Live. How cool.

MS did the right thing here. This is an entry level player. Gives you the OPTION unlike Sony.
more...


If you "Audiofiles" are so serious why would you buy a Video game HD player anyway? Get a standalone ass hats.

[sinister slipknot]

QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Nov 5 2006, 07:34 PM)

You forget a few important features with the 360..

IT ACUALLY HAS GAMES!!

   

[Madskilz182]

Now if MS could  just come up with a 360 model that could make me pancakes in the morning......  exra syrup please

[Caldor]

It's funny how some of you try to put your argument across. You ignore the other person's points and then ad nasuem repeat your doctrine and lace it with attacks against the man. Or is school out and all the children are posting?

A standalone is not necessarily higher quality then a HTPC or the PS3, the 360 is lower quality due to the absence of HDMI.

The point the MS apologists seem to gloss over is that the PS3 fully supports the high def era - you don't have to be forced into a low end solution like the MS addon. And, you dont have to fork out over a $US1000+ for a good BD player.

There are more problems too as I explained earlier.

All of these would be fixed if MS released a HDMI cable and then not only would the AV be good, but the things the xbox currently does well like live and games would provide a brutal match of capabilities.

[silentbob343]

QUOTE(puppydg68 @ Nov 5 2006, 11:17 AM)

I can understand your destain for sony since you are obviously a fanboy, however when comparing blu-ray to hd-dvd - they are actually the SAME encoded files, any quality that people are comparing is based on the players available on the market.  You do understand that blu-ray and HD-DVD are simply storage formats.. The actual Hd-def movie files on each disc are compatible..  either VC1 or H264 encoded.   That means in theory copy protection aside, you could put a HD-DVD movie onto a blu-ray disc and have the exact same quality file.    

I was going to post that, but got lazy and didn't want to add more fuel to the fire.  Glad somebody did.

QUOTE(JohnnyVegas @ Nov 5 2006, 03:34 PM)

You forget a few important features with the 360..

IT ACUALLY HAS GAMES!! The PS3 will not have a nice title till next holiday at least and by that time the 360 games will be well formed and have larger inventory.

You also get access to the best Online service in the gaming community.

You also get a good track record of quality parts and service unlike Sony parts (hello PS2, TV, stereos of late).

lol that is stupid.  It's a new system of course it won't have the same library of games the 360 out of the gate, but it does have games available upon launch and plenty more will be made for the system.  "Nice title" is subjective and depnds on what games you like to play.

Please don't talk about quality and MS, "Help my 360 flashing is 3 red lights"..."Oh that's easy just take a heatgun to it".

Here is what it comes down to.  Some people see the value of the PS3 and want to purchase one, you don't and thus own the 360.

[elmo_sni]

come on guys, stop trying to convince the guy next to you to buy a ps3 or 360. In the end it's all about the games anyway.