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[Hellbeans]

Hi, im new to the forums so excuse me for sounding noobish?

My box is connected to my PC monitor, a MAG 19" CRT using the 1st party VGA cable.
But im not quite sure if games are operating at a smooth enough framerate and Im not sure how to get the best out of this setup.

In Oblivion for example, I have framerate issues at specific locations, which as Ive read is normal, but I just wanna be sure my box isnt underperforming.

In PDZ I had a couple of locations where the framerate dropped naggingly in a certain location.

G.R.A.W, the latest game I got also feels quite weird (I posted this in the respective forum).

Any advice, suggestions, or comments, is very welcome.

[twistedsymphony]

framerate drops like that have nothing to do with the video adapter you're using.

Oblivion is a big game... the framerate drops sometimes when it's loading in the background. I can't speak for the other games but what you're describing sounds completely normal.

[Hellbeans]

Thanks, im a bit calmer now.

edit: this post has been edited, because the sentence first said "Thanks, im a bit calmer I now".

This post has been edited by Hellbeans: May 9 2006, 03:06 PM

[hignaki]

QUOTE(twistedsymphony @ May 9 2006, 01:09 PM)

framerate drops like that have nothing to do with the video adapter you're using.

I hate to say this, but that is incorrect.  Sites (and many gamers, you can do it yourself) have done tests that prove that using a vga cable at a higher resolution can drop framerates considerably in games.  Go play Tomb Raider:Legend with a VGA cable at the highest settings and watch framerates crawl in areas, where the same areas run just fine on a regular TV connection (640x480) or even a slightly lower resolution with vga/HD Component.

[VinnySem]

QUOTE(hignaki @ May 10 2006, 11:12 PM)

I hate to say this, but that is incorrect.  Sites (and many gamers, you can do it yourself) have done tests that prove that using a vga cable at a higher resolution can drop framerates considerably in games.  Go play Tomb Raider:Legend with a VGA cable at the highest settings and watch framerates crawl in areas, where the same areas run just fine on a regular TV connection (640x480) or even a slightly lower resolution with vga/HD Component.
 

I hate to say this, but that is incorrect. It has nothing to do with the cable, it has to do with the resolution the game is being rendered at. Compare the same game at the same resolution on different cables, the framerates should be very close if not identical. Obviously, as you increase resolution, framerate will decrease as a function of the GPU's power.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(VinnySem @ May 11 2006, 08:11 AM)

I hate to say this, but that is incorrect. It has nothing to do with the cable, it has to do with the resolution the game is being rendered at. Compare the same game at the same resolution on different cables, the framerates should be very close if not identical. Obviously, as you increase resolution, framerate will decrease as a function of the GPU's power.

yes... perhaps I should have been more specific...

it's a combination of the game and the resolution.

Games like Tomb Raider are programed to run at multiple resolutions. using a VGA adapter in 640x480 VS using composite in 480i should produce the same results but running the VGA adapter in 1280x720 vs the 480i composite will produce different results because the console has to work harder to produce the higher resolution.

Alternatively PGR3 renders at 600P internally and scales from there, so no matter if your output resolution is 480i or 1080i the results in terms of frame rate will be the same because the console is working at the same difficulty throughout.

Again this has NOTHING to do with the cable and is completely NORMAL when playing the game at a particular resolution.

[hignaki]

Sorry, I must have said it wrong.  What I meant was that yes, it does depend on the video adapter you're using (VGA v component) if you have the VGA at anything besides 640x480.  Didn't mean to sound like a dumbass.

[Hellbeans]

QUOTE(hignaki @ May 12 2006, 02:04 AM)

Sorry, I must have said it wrong.  What I meant was that yes, it does depend on the video adapter you're using (VGA v component) if you have the VGA at anything besides 640x480.  Didn't mean to sound like a dumbass.

...What's your point?
What do you mean at anything besides 640x480?

[hignaki]

QUOTE(Hellbeans @ May 16 2006, 02:27 PM)

...What's your point?
What do you mean at anything besides 640x480?

The same things that were said more eloquently by the previous posters.  With your VGA cable, you can set the resolution from the system settings menu.  At 640x480, you will get the same performance (framerate) as you would with the standard cables.  Set it to anything higher (like, 1024x768), and performance will drop.

Not that difficult of a concept to understand.

[thax]

QUOTE(hignaki @ May 16 2006, 10:16 PM)

The same things that were said more eloquently by the previous posters.  With your VGA cable, you can set the resolution from the system settings menu.  At 640x480, you will get the same performance (framerate) as you would with the standard cables.  Set it to anything higher (like, 1024x768), and performance will drop.

Not that difficult of a concept to understand.

From my understanding all frames are rendered at 720p resolution (with the exception of PGR3) then the webtv chip scales the output to the configured resolution. This would make the performance the same across all settings and cables.

[Hellbeans]

QUOTE(thax @ May 17 2006, 01:03 AM)

From my understanding all frames are rendered at 720p resolution (with the exception of PGR3) then the webtv chip scales the output to the configured resolution. This would make the performance the same across all settings and cables.

Ok you'll have to excuse me for being safety-paranoid, but does it mean 1024x768 is the 720p equivalent, or I can only get the best performance (vga-wise) with 640x480?

[hignaki]

QUOTE(thax @ May 17 2006, 12:03 AM)

From my understanding all frames are rendered at 720p resolution (with the exception of PGR3) then the webtv chip scales the output to the configured resolution. This would make the performance the same across all settings and cables.

I know; that's the funny thing.  I understood it to be just scaled either way.  But, have you played Tomb Raider at all?  There is a clear difference, and I don't know why.  I DO know that not all games are output exactly the same in all of the configurations; for instance, the menu on COD2 in 640x480 has nice, big letters, and the compass is moved and altered; whereas running it at 1280x1024, the compass/menu items are tiny compared to what they were, and would be readable ONLY with the higher resolution.  This leads me to believe that the game knows what output setting it is at, and can change at the developers will.  

 It's been reported on other places like the [H]ardForums and stuff, too.  Might google it later to find out more, if you wanted to.

[twistedsymphony]

QUOTE(thax @ May 16 2006, 07:03 PM)

From my understanding all frames are rendered at 720p resolution (with the exception of PGR3) then the webtv chip scales the output to the configured resolution. This would make the performance the same across all settings and cables.

That's not entirely true...

MS requires all games be made to support 720p resolution (1280x720). The WebTV scaler chip can scale any game resolution to any other resolution supported by the console.

SOME Games are actually built to render at a multitude of resolutions. For instance Condemned can render at both 640x480 (480i/p) as well as 1280x720 (720p). So if you have your display set to 480p then the scaler isn't doing anything because the game is actually rendering at that size.

Kameo on the other hand ONLY supports 1280x720, so no matter what your console is set to output it will always be rendering 720p and scaling it to your output.

Interesting enough all of the first party game ONLY support 720p (PGR is 600p but that's another story), where most 3rd party games support that as well as 480p, some even natively support 1080i (it should say on the box)

That's why some games run smoother when playing through a 480 based connection, because they're actually rendering at that resolution.

Now when using a VGA cable it's kind of a crap-shoot. Some games, even if you're displaying at 1280x1024 even though it can fully fit the 720p render it will choose to render the game at 640x480 because it's a fullscreen format as opposed to a widescreen. This is based entirely on how the developer decided the game should work in such a situation. It sucks but that's how it is.

[Hellbeans]

So how do you suggest finding the best matching res man?

[thax]

Wow, thanks for the clairification hignaki and twisted. It is totally surprising that the developers didn't just optimize for a single resolution. This really makes using component 720p an advantage in some cases, as games are likely to be tested heavily at this resolution.