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[Carlo210]

QUOTE(Ezrem @ Dec 19 2005, 10:28 PM)

I just purchased a VGA cable over the weekend and have noticed the same issue.

I am using a Sony G540P 21" CRT for a display.  In its day, this was a $1200+ PC monitor.

I assure you there are no issues with this display, as I use it for my PC's regularly.

When connecting an XBOX 360, the image looks washed out as others have said.  Almost as if someone has raised the gamma correction to its maximum setting on the source device.  This is especially noticeable when playing Condemned, which inserts bars on the top and bottom of the image to provide a 16:9 widescreen experience.  The bars, which SHOULD be as deep a black as one can find, are a medium gray in color.

When switching to input 2, which I use for my PC's, I am rewarded with normal rich colors, and no washed-out look.  Areas that are black look black, etc.

When I run the 360 through my Sony KV34XBR910 high definition TV using the supplied component video cable I am rewarded with the same normal rich colors I expect from every other source used on that TV.

In summary, This problem only appears to exist when using the VGA cable.

Why don't you lower your contrast??

This VGA cable better not be bad. It seems as if most of your guys' problems are because you don't feel like calibrating your screen or lowering contrast/brightness. "It's dark, it's washed, it;s too bright". Sounds like high brightness/contrast to me. Only complaint I've been hearing from you guys.

[Foe-hammer]

If anything, more contrast is needed.  Contrast does not wash out the colors, it is the brightness setting that does it when it is set to high.

The main problem the 360 has with vga is in order to get a true, absolute blacks, the overall picture suffers from being too dark.

The other problem is that there is not enough contrast.


These two problems are non-existant when i play pc games on my same pc monitor i use for the 360.  I wonder what the reason(s) could be.

That being said, the picture quality still looks amazing.  The detail and color balance looks much better then what i get on my brothers DLP HDTV.

[Foe-hammer]

QUOTE(jizmo @ Dec 20 2005, 12:18 AM)

The question is; why didn't MS include gamma settings in x360's preferences, there would surely be a good demand for that.

No doubt.

Gamma, plus individual brightness and contrast settings would be a god send, and you'd thing a no brainer for MS to put in the 360 dash.

I would also like the option to reconfig the button mapping in the 360 dash for game that force one to play a certain way.  Because very few games offer complete button reconfig, and those that offer some are very limiting.

It must be that devs think console gamers are idiots that will get confused with too many settings.  because with PC games, both issues are addressed.

[jizmo]

QUOTE(Ezrem @ Dec 20 2005, 05:14 PM)

I think asking MS to include a gamma correction bar on the dashboard is right on the money.  This appears to be exactly what we need.  I am thinking there must be some kind of bug that jacks the gamma all the way up when the VGA cable is connected.  Hopefully it can be corrected by software, as I will certainly be unhappy if some kind of hardware design flaw keeps me from using VGA cable for optimum image quality on the next 1366x768 pixel 40" LCD or 50" Plasma panel I buy.

Since this is obviously an issue with many others out there, it should be raised to public knowledge. Maybe someone here knows a good way to approach MS on this subject, since I'm pretty sure that any calls to MS hotlines will be replied with uneducated guesses instead of taking things to further suspection.

I'm having the same deranged feeling of unhappiness than you. Here I am, having sunk $2600 to my x360, HDTV and now additional $45 to the VGA cable, and I'm not getting nearly the best picture out of my set.

Plus, as I was reading the forum conversation you sent, I clearly remember using HTPC with the VGA input in my LCD TV and the colors were

Quoting the ntsc-uk.domino thread:

QUOTE

Feeding in any VGA source has always produced an exceptionally vibrant picture.

Same thing here, HTPC input from VGA jack has been almost *too* vibrant in colors. x360's VGA is like there was a greaseproof paper glued on top of my TV screen.

[Arakon]

one thing you could attempt is to add resistors to the R, G and B lines, it would weaken the signal and reduce the brightness of it some.

[frobnitzz]

Hi,

Just to add my 2 peneth worth...

I've just unpacked my vga cable made by joytech. Been using the standard componant cable from M$ for a while now (which btw is soooo cheap compared to the old M$ comp cable).

So, plugged in switched on and omg... what a heap of crud picture... grey and washed out as described. Changed the dash settings to widescreen and 1280x1024.. still no better.

Went in to my telly box menu to have a look at colour settings etc and changed the PSM? setting from Standard to Dynamic - BAM - superb picture. Back to Standard, STILL excellent picture... very odd. Seems like I had to re-teach my TV about the VGA input.

I'm running a 42" LG plasma (5000:1)

To conclude, IMO the vga picture is better than componant (which technically it should be!).  

[jizmo]

QUOTE(frobnitzz @ Dec 21 2005, 01:07 PM)

Went in to my telly box menu to have a look at colour settings etc and changed the PSM? setting from Standard to Dynamic - BAM - superb picture. Back to Standard, STILL excellent picture... very odd. Seems like I had to re-teach my TV about the VGA input.

Interesting. Many LCD TV's have vast amount of picture profiles, but they are locked when using VGA or DVI inputs.

You said that colors were washed out, but did you have problems with too much brightness (overburning)?

QUOTE(frobnitzz @ Dec 21 2005, 01:07 PM)

To conclude, IMO the vga picture is better than componant (which technically it should be!).  

It's better on paper to begin with, and in also practise mostly because most TV's overscan material from component cables (as is done with most signals), and some resolution is lost. VGA signal is shown as whole.

This is very much the reason why I'd like to get the damn thing working.

[jizmo]

QUOTE(Arakon @ Dec 21 2005, 03:34 AM)

one thing you could attempt is to add resistors to the R, G and B lines, it would weaken the signal and reduce the brightness of it some.

I reckon I'm forced to try this out, since I'm not getting help from anywhere else.

So, I'll make a convertor piece with female and male VGA ports, and connect them with cables that have resistors in RGB lines. Do only the first three lines count or should they be soldered on other pins as well.

What kind of resistors do you reckon that would do the job? Something like 15-20% darker might just do the job. Even 10% might do since I don't want to overkill it.

[Arakon]

just R, G and B will do with resistors.. connect the rest straight through. I have no idea what values to use, using a potentiometer may actually give you the best result (use one from 0-500 ohm or 0-1000 ohm), so you can freely adjust the value.

[frobnitzz]

QUOTE(jizmo @ Dec 21 2005, 12:51 PM)

Many LCD TV's

It's a plasma, not LCD.  

[jizmo]

Here are the camera shots I promised:

Fifa Start Screen

You can see everything near-white has burned to white. The lost information is best shown on EA logo. No way of bringing this back by TV settings.

Fifa Start Demo

Faces that have should have beige shades have turned almost white. To be honest looks worse in this shot than in reality, but the faces are still burnt so much that I really prefer the component cable. And yes, I know the images are from different players, but the lighting was the same for both.

I tried the VGA on my Viewsonic monitor, and it looks a bit better, but still too bright and washed out compared to component.

[FlashKick]

yeah those pictures really do show it! way too bright on vga. i have fifa 06 and play it on my 17" lcd and i'm not really experiencing the same issues you are, but the picture overall is very bright.

[shodanjr_gr]

In order to get better blacks and whites on my screen and i uped the contrast all the way up, droped the brightness to 30 or so (before  and then set color balance to warm). Try it out and let us know.

[jizmo]

QUOTE(Snookieboy @ Dec 22 2005, 03:24 AM)

I'm also experiencing what people say with VGA being bright and washed out and component being too dark.

I called MS hotline yesterday and they said my cable is broken. I said this wasn't an isolated case, and that there are many others who have withnessed the same thing on forums.

Don't believe what you read in forums, he said and urged me to get my cable changed. I'll do just that, while I'm pretty confident i'll be having the exact same kind of problems with the other cable as well.

QUOTE(Snookieboy @ Dec 22 2005, 03:24 AM)

(For example Halo 2, you have to update it to play on Live, and the Updater wont work on a VGA Cable). I'm keeping both cables set up so I can switch between them easily, until someone can suggest a good fix

I also ran into this when running BC with VGA cable. It just suggested me to lower my video mode, which I did but it didn't help at all. It didn't state clearly that I'd have to have whole different cable and screenmode set to 480p instead.

Thought, when you figure it out eventually, you can make all the downloads at once by playing on live with lores for awhile and then switch back to VGA.

Still, two design flaws (bc not fully compatible with vga and its non-informative error message) is not something I'd expect from a company is MS' caliber and makes me further suspect there are some other shortcomings with the hard/software.

And I really suspect there's one in the VGA cable, in general.

[villain1]

Just out of curiosity is this the Joytech or MS VGA cable ?
I have the Joytech cable and i have the same problem,washed out colurs etc.