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[XBL_SUCKS]

Who would you people say is the most overrated in any sport?

I would say
soccer: David Beckham
Basketball: Allen Huston or Vince Carter
Football: Eli Manning, Ricky Williams
Hockey: Ed Belfor, Danny Healtley
Baseball: Barry Bonds, Curt Shilling, David Wells, Jason Gaimbi, David Ortiz (he's a DH how hard is that!!)
Over all: Tiger Woods, (Roger Feder (spelling), Andy Roddick (it's F'ing tennis)

As for underrated

Soccer: Therry Henry, Wayne Rooney, Carlos Ranaldo (Man U), Del Piero (Italy)
Basketball: Kevin Garnett, Jalen Rose, Richard Hamilton and Tim Duncan
Football:  Carnell (Cadilic) Williams, Antanio Gates, Tolimson (spelling)
Hockey: Kris Draper, Simon Gagne, Steve Yzerman, Andrew Cassels
Baseball: Orlando Hudson, Roy Haliday, Dontrelle Willis
As for the most underrated player it's: Ichro Suzki (1,000+ hits in 4 seasons ) the guy is awsome plus he plays for a not so great team

[Rylinkus]

Since I'm not as into every sport the way I am baseball I'm going to restrict this to a baseball only arguement.

Most overated:
Ichiro Suzuki: Let me preface this by saying I think he's a great ball player. Simply not as good as everyone thinks. He's a smart player. A good fielder. And a good baserunner. My gripe is when he has a bat in his hand. You can make every arguement you want about his hit total. That's only part of baseball. Getting on base is where it's at. And because Ichiro expands his strike zone and never draws walks (47 this year to date) he has a horrible on base percentage. (.346).The only times he has a decent OBP is when he bats .340ish, which he's not going to do every year. He also doesnt have decent power. When you compare him to one of your underrated players (Let's say Giambi) his OBP is almost 100 point lower .346 vs. .440. That's simply because even when Giambi isn't hitting he draws walks which puts him on base.

Someones gonna make the note that Safeco hinders offensive numbers. For a home run hitter this is probably true. But as big as the outfield I almost wonder if it's an advantage for a slap hitter like Ichiro.

The point is simply that everyone thinks hes such an amzing hitter when in reality he only hits for average. He doesn't draw walks or hit for power. Theres guys who can do 2 or even all 3 of those.

Now I've got a few comments on some of your players.

Dontrelle: I'm not sure that the D-Train's a secret anymore. I think he gets plenty of credit. I think there's several other pitchers that are more underrated. I think Carpenter just because of his style and demeanor gets snubbed at times. He's just not as easy to like as Dontrelle. Oswalt is another great example. Somehow overshadowed by Clemens and Pettite when he's been pitching very well the last few years.

Halladay: People who don't know Roy don't know baseball and simply shouldn't be allowed opinions. He's the best AL pitcher.... Period.
How bout a guy like Joe Nathan for Min. 2.82 ERA this year. 40 saves. And all we hear is Rivera this, Wickman that, BJ Ryan sucks.

Schilling: As bad as he is this year, and he IS getting a pass, he is a monster big game pitcher. He did it in Arizona and he did it in Boston. clutch performances are worth their weight in gold and I'd rather have the Pettittes and Schills that are better when the game matters most then guys like Mussina who seem to fold under pressure.

Ortiz: David Ortiz could probably play a bad 1st base just like plenty of other players play bad in the field. There's several suspect 1Bs. And plenty of bad outfielders. Boston has other position players for 1st and can therefore use him at DH. Don't say he's overrated simply because Boston doesn't need him in the field. How hard is a DH? Pretty hard I'd say. How many guys have better offensive numbers this year? Or the last 2 years? 3 years? There's so few multitool hitters. So few guys can hit for power and average and draw walks (High OBP). Think about it. Whats the list of truly great hitters? A-Rod. Bonds. Ortiz. Vlad. Pujols. Manny. A Jones if .280 is hitting for average. Texeira (Same deal on average though) When you start making this list bigger you start compromising the power or average numbers. Hey, if I can only list 10 players or so that hit as well as Ortiz can, then how hard is being a DH at his level? Well apparently theres several hundred guys in the league that can't do it and only a handful that could. So I guess pretty hard.

What about some love for some of the younger guys or good guys on bad teams. Hafner, Sizemore, Crawford, Kazmir, King Felix, Cano, Hoffman, The rest of the Indians, King Felix, Reed Johnson, Livan Hernandez, Felix Hernandez, Sheets, Brian Giles, Lugo, The A's pitching staff. Frankly there's so many players that play very well and no one knows or cares that it's sad. Apparently if youre not a flashy superstar for NY, BOS, or STL no one wants to buy your jersey.

Quick Football thoughts.

Cadillac isn't underrated. He's a rookie. Just because a guy has three great games we can't act like he deserves to be put on the same level as Tomlinson, Holmes, Deuce, etc.

Eli.... I think Elis looked really good in his last game. He's still young and QBs take more time to develope then RBs and other positions. No one could expect him to be an all star yet. Plenty of HOF QBs had bad first seasons. Remember, Big Ben winning all those games is a fluke. It's more his team then him. He didn't need to win games, just not lose them with mistakes and turnovers. I think Elis shown remarkable improvement and think in a year or 2 he'll be one of the elite QBs in the game. (On a side note I hope not. I dislike Eli Manning)

Under rated NFL players
QB: Trent Green. My #4 QB in the game after McNabb, Manning, and Brady (No particular order)

RB. Westbrook. If he's not as important or more important then TO I dont know who is. And Ill bet very few think of him when thinkg of the Eagles.

Federer could be the greatest teniis player of all time. I think it's hard to over rate someone that dominant.

This post has been edited by Rylinkus: Sep 29 2005, 02:46 AM

[Spency234]

QUOTE(XBL_SUCKS @ Sep 28 2005, 07:41 PM)

Who would you people say is the most overrated in any sport?

I would say
soccer: David Beckham
Basketball: Allen Huston or Vince Carter
Football: Eli Manning, Ricky Williams
Hockey: Ed Belfor, Danny Healtley
Baseball: Barry Bonds, Curt Shilling, David Wells, Jason Gaimbi, David Ortiz (he's a DH how hard is that!!)
Over all: Tiger Woods, (Roger Feder (spelling), Andy Roddick (it's F'ing tennis)

As for underrated

Soccer: Therry Henry, Wayne Rooney, Carlos Ranaldo (Man U), Del Piero (Italy)
Basketball: Kevin Garnett, Jalen Rose, Richard Hamilton and Tim Duncan
Football:  Carnell (Cadilic) Williams, Antanio Gates, Tolimson (spelling)
Hockey: Kris Draper, Simon Gagne, Steve Yzerman, Andrew Cassels
Baseball: Orlando Hudson, Roy Haliday, Dontrelle Willis
As for the most underrated player it's: Ichro Suzki (1,000+ hits in 4 seasons ) the guy is awsome plus he plays for a not so great team

Here I go, with my arguments to this thread (I'll post my thoughts after)

Overrated:

How is Barry Bonds overrated?  Because of the steroid scandal?  He is the greatest offensive force (in almost any sport) in our time, and I really think he deserves more credit.  The media has put *'s beside every one of his numbers and I don't think that is fair.

Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer of all time, and I don't see any argument to back up otherwise.

Same with Federer, as Rylinkus said, could quite possibly be the greatest tennis player of all time.  How can anyone like that be overrated?

Underrated:

Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan have both been league MVP's.  Tim Duncan was the MVP of last years playoffs.  Enough said.


Now for my thoughts.
I'm going to stick to just a few sports here.

Overrated

Basketball: Kobe Bryant - THE most selfish player in the league.  Sure he is a great talent and can score 30+ every night, but the Jordan comparisons are getting pretty silly.
Hockey: I'm going to have to go with Roberto Luango on this one.  He had the best save percentage in the league last year but lets see what happens when they cut those massive pads in half.

Underrated

Basketball: AI.  How do you put up a 30.7 Points, 7.9 Assists, and 2.4 Steals per game and not even be considered for MVP?

[XBL_SUCKS]

QUOTE(Spency234 @ Oct 2 2005, 01:44 AM)

Here I go, with my arguments to this thread (I'll post my thoughts after)

Overrated:

How is Barry Bonds overrated?  Because of the steroid scandal?  He is the greatest offensive force (in almost any sport) in our time, and I really think he deserves more credit.  The media has put *'s beside every one of his numbers and I don't think that is fair.

Tiger Woods is the greatest golfer of all time, and I don't see any argument to back up otherwise.

Same with Federer, as Rylinkus said, could quite possibly be the greatest tennis player of all time.  How can anyone like that be overrated?

Underrated:

Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan have both been league MVP's.  Tim Duncan was the MVP of last years playoffs.  Enough said.
Now for my thoughts.
I'm going to stick to just a few sports here.

Overrated

Basketball: Kobe Bryant - THE most selfish player in the league.  Sure he is a great talent and can score 30+ every night, but the Jordan comparisons are getting pretty silly.
Hockey: I'm going to have to go with Roberto Luango on this one.  He had the best save percentage in the league last year but lets see what happens when they cut those massive pads in half.

Underrated

Basketball: AI.  How do you put up a 30.7 Points, 7.9 Assists, and 2.4 Steals per game and not even be considered for MVP?

Wrong on the Barry Bonds being the greatest Offensive threat, ever hear of Wayne Gretzky? I forgot about Kobe good call Spency. As for the people I mentioned the my Opions and I am sticking to 'em

[thomes08]

the hockey pads are cut down by 11%....not 50%

[killerbootsman]

OverRated
Ricky Williams
Curt Schilling
Derek Jeter
Nomar Garciaparra
Kobe Bryant
Vince Carter

UnderRated
LaDainian Tomlinson
Brian Giles
Hines Ward
Alge Crumpler
Keith Bullock
Ron Francis
Dirk Nowitzki

This post has been edited by killerbootsman: Oct 2 2005, 10:32 PM

[Rylinkus]

Monster game for Eli..... Overrated still or just developing???
(I still hate him)

Crumpler is definately overlooked. Very good TE.

[Spency234]

I realize the pads weren't actually cut down by 50%, his pads just looked much bigger then everybody else's.

Can't argue with Gretzky being the biggest offensive force in sports history, Bonds is up there though.

[throwingks]

Bonds was a great offensive threat. That doesnt mean he isnt overrated. I.E. If Ichiro did 'roids he would be a better offensive threat in my opinion. Bonds as a player is overrated. He does not deserve the titles and records he has. Even though he did take 1 from another 'roid mongrel (McGuire).

[thomes08]

ooo Ron Francis is a really good one!

[mamajo]

QUOTE(thomes08 @ Oct 3 2005, 04:14 AM)

ooo Ron Francis is a really good one!

I hope that is sarcasm.

[thomes08]

i'm a hockey fan and a penguins fan..... that man is (was, he just retired) wayyyyyy underrated.  I really meant that that was a good pick for an underrated player

thomes08

[myronc]

Rylinkus, liked your defense of ortiz.  it's so hard not to like the guy.  you can count the number of times he's picked that team up on several hands.

[Rylinkus]

QUOTE(myronc @ Oct 4 2005, 07:33 AM)

Rylinkus, liked your defense of ortiz.  it's so hard not to like the guy.  you can count the number of times he's picked that team up on several hands.

There's just do few multitool hitters. So few guys can hit for power and average and draw walks. The list is VERY short. I don't like him for MVP this year. I think A-Rod deserves it as he has similar offensive production but also gives NY above average fielding at his position and better baserunning (22? steals). But don't knock Big Papi. He's the most feared hitter in baseball right now. Look at what the Yankees did with him this last weekend. They didn't intentionally walk him, but they certainly didn't pitch to him either. They'd rather walk him on base then let him hit a HR (And this is with Manny behind him in the order)

And that's really my knock on Ichiro. So many people want to put him on par with the best hitters in the game. But the best hitters in the game hit for average, power, AND walk. Ichiro just hits for average. I can find other players with similar averages to Ichiro most years. And guy who are overall better hitters as their other offensive numbers are more impressive. But there's a handful of guys that you can put on the same level as Ortiz. If it were so easy to DH every DH would have 45 homers, a .299 average, and 150ish RBIs.

Add to that Ortiz seeming to be a hell of a nice guy. How can you not like him?

This post has been edited by Rylinkus: Oct 4 2005, 11:51 PM

[Andy51]

Hockey



Sidney Crobsy is so overrated, geez people he hasn't even played a Hockey game yet that counts...

Underrated- Miikka Kiprusoff (Why do everyone ignores him? Hes amazing)