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Author Topic: Greatness Of Warriors?  (Read 405 times)

gronne

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« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2004, 12:18:00 PM »
I could use Nelson Mandela if you like him better, or I can use Mordechai Vanunu. But now I'm using Ernesto Guevara because he's a hero, yes. I don't defend the murdering he did, but I defend his struggle.
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2004, 12:21:00 PM »
Don't ever compare a great man like Nelson Mandela with the likes of Che that is like comparing Gandhi to Hitler.
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pegasys

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« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2004, 12:22:00 PM »
He was a GREAT leader, he was an GREAT commander, and a GREAT tactition.  He was imperialistic, so are we.  Sll soldiers kill people, thats just how the world was.  We are not calling him a saint, we are just saying that he was great.  Hitler was a great leader(donm't jump down my throat for this), Eisehower was a great leader, Alexander was a great leader, aand so were many other military figures.  It dosn't mean that they were "good" people.  Personally, I don't condone the killing of innocents, but sometimes it needs to be done.
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2004, 12:24:00 PM »
smile.gif
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gronne

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« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2004, 12:25:00 PM »
QUOTE (FektionFekler @ Dec 5 2004, 09:19 PM)
Please tell me during what period this all occurred, and then thoroughly rethink your previous comments. wink.gif

Elaborate which comments I should re-think. If you refer to my comments about Guevara I can only say that his killings aren't defendable, but he killed people that had very much to do with the conflict. Alexander did NOT. I'm not saying Cuba is a particularly good nation either. But it was a long time ago he died, and he leaved Cuba before he was killed in Bolivia, so you can't say he had much to do with Castro's failure in building up the country.
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gronne

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« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2004, 12:32:00 PM »
QUOTE (pegasys @ Dec 5 2004, 09:25 PM)
He was a GREAT leader, he was an GREAT commander, and a GREAT tactition.  He was imperialistic, so are we.  Sll soldiers kill people, thats just how the world was.  We are not calling him a saint, we are just saying that he was great.  Hitler was a great leader(donm't jump down my throat for this), Eisehower was a great leader, Alexander was a great leader, aand so were many other military figures.  It dosn't mean that they were "good" people.  Personally, I don't condone the killing of innocents, but sometimes it needs to be done.

Thatnks for being on the subject.

I didn't say you in particular thought well of him and other leaders. I was talking about those who do. I agree he was a great commander and a great tactitian, but refering to him as a good person (who many do) is really sick.

I can't come to think of anyone who was similar to Alexander or other great leaders, but I guess you would look back at such a leader with pride, like my countrymen do when they think back of the vikings.
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2004, 12:33:00 PM »
Che was a fucking coward, and deserves no ones respect. He killed people by binding, gagging, blind folding and then shooting them in the back of the head, he wouldn't dare challenge someone like a real man (sounds a lot like your other hero Zarqawi). He was a fucking punk. As for my previous comment, I meant Alexander, as you should well know those weren't the most civilized of times.
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2004, 12:35:00 PM »
QUOTE (gronne @ Dec 5 2004, 09:28 PM)
but he killed people that had very much to do with the conflict. Alexander did NOT.

Do you not understand the concept of imperialism?
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gronne

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« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2004, 12:41:00 PM »
QUOTE (FektionFekler @ Dec 5 2004, 09:36 PM)
Che was a fucking coward, and deserves no ones respect. He killed people by binding, gagging, blind folding and then shooting them in the back of the head, he wouldn't dare challenge someone like a real man (sounds a lot like your other hero Zarqawi).

Yeah, Che was a great coward, apart from being ready to die for what he believed in. He was near being killed several times, yet always continued.
Before he was killed it's rumored he said "Shoot me, you're killing a man".


So that justifies his killings of thousands of men? <---refered to Alexander, not Guevara.

QUOTE

He was a fucking punk. As for my previous comment, I meant Alexander, as you should well know those weren't the most civilized of times.


Still doesn't justify jack shit. They were not stupid, or less good people back then. Some of the greatest Philosophers back then were against all the killings.
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gronne

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« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2004, 12:43:00 PM »
QUOTE (FektionFekler @ Dec 5 2004, 09:38 PM)
Do you not understand the concept of imperialism?

Yeah, and how the fuck can you defend it? I'm not saying it wasn't imperialistic times back then. But you seem to like imperialism.
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2004, 12:48:00 PM »
QUOTE (gronne @ Dec 5 2004, 09:44 PM)
Before he was killed it's rumored he said "Shoot me, you're killing a man".

Actually it was more like, "Don’t shoot! I’m Che. I’m worth to you more alive than dead!”
QUOTE (gronne @ Dec 5 2004, 09:44 PM)
So that justifies his killings of thousands of men? Still doesn't justify jack shit. They were not stupid, or less good people back then. Some of the greatest Philosophers back then were against all the killings.

Yes actually it does, because they didn't know any better, might makes right.
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2004, 12:51:00 PM »
QUOTE (gronne @ Dec 5 2004, 09:46 PM)
Yeah, and how the fuck can you defend it? I'm not saying it wasn't imperialistic times back then. But you seem to like imperialism.

Then what are you saying? rotfl.gif If it was imperialistic then all the other shit is a given and non-debatable.
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gronne

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« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2004, 03:58:00 PM »
QUOTE (FektionFekler @ Dec 5 2004, 09:54 PM)
Then what are you saying? rotfl.gif If it was imperialistic then all the other shit is a given and non-debatable.

That's what I'm talking about, you've lead this "debate" to stupid comments about Ivan's birth title, and things that haven't got jack shit to do with my topic.

I brought up the discussion to question our views TODAY!!! What's history is history, but we decide to look at it very differently. I was questioning our ways to look at the ruthless murderers as heroes. I can't change history, and I wouldn't want to either. But I would hope people could be more rational when absorbing the history.
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Maximumbeing

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« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2004, 04:28:00 PM »
Hannibal > Che and any other "advocate for struggle".
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2004, 08:17:00 PM »
QUOTE (gronne @ Dec 6 2004, 01:01 AM)
That's what I'm talking about, you've lead this "debate" to stupid comments about Ivan's birth title, and things that haven't got jack shit to do with my topic.

I brought up the discussion to question our views TODAY!!! What's history is history, but we decide to look at it very differently. I was questioning our ways to look at the ruthless murderers as heroes. I can't change history, and I wouldn't want to either. But I would hope people could be more rational when absorbing the history.

Your view is fucking irrelevant to the time period at hand, and actually those "stupid" comments had anything and everything to do with the topic at hand, try reading, it does wonders.
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