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Author Topic: Greatness Of Warriors?  (Read 407 times)

gronne

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Greatness Of Warriors?
« on: December 04, 2004, 05:35:00 PM »
I just saw Oliver Stone talking about Alexander the great.
He started talking about his enormous achievements, during his short lifetime. There's no doubt he was glorifying him. Being impressed is one thing, glorifying is completely different. Now I haven't seen the film, but I suppose he's not pictured as the brutal murderer he was. If you ask me he's Alexander the horrible.

Why do we glorify these scumbags?

In my country (Sweden) we have an impressive history to say the least. And my countrymen often speak about such incredible warriors our vikings were, and how powerful our kings were. And I do agree we have an impressive history, but I'm certainly not proud of it. When I think about our vikings I only see imperialistic and extremely brutal murderers who wanted nothing but to conquer weaker people. I don't know anyone here who think bad of the vikings, apart from me.

We can easily glorify Alexander, but never Hitler. Why? Both of them are just as awful, right? But we have pictures of the devestation Hitler caused, not from Alexander's time. I bet everyone feared Alexander just as much.

I think it's sick to look up to these murderers. I sure like to know the history about all powerful men, but only to learn about them, not to glorify them.
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nemt

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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2004, 05:47:00 PM »
Alexander was actually well known as a magnanimous conqueror, and his mercy towards the Persians is a matter of historical fact.
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EmperorPsiblade

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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2004, 06:42:00 PM »
pacifists are such hypocrits!

war is murder.. over and over and over until the whole earth runs red with the blood of the enemy!

get used to it... people are been brutally killing each other since we we still Homo Erectus... wink.gif

Alexander, despite being such an ambitious and educated person, still failed in his goal of conquest by dying at such a young age.. additionally, he was unable to unite his conquered lands so they fell apart after his death...
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gronne

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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2004, 06:07:00 PM »
QUOTE (nemt @ Dec 5 2004, 03:44 AM)
Alexander was actually well known as a magnanimous conqueror, and his mercy towards the Persians is a matter of historical fact.

He still murdered a lot of persians. And if you think he was such a nice fellow, skip him then. I was talking about great warriors in general. Genghis Khan and others are often seen as heroes. They were nothing but horrible murderers eventhough they might've done things resembling to good. Imperialism is never nice. Do you seriously think of them as good people? Then this is what I'm talking about. No one who kill thousands upon thousands of people only to expand an empire, can be seen as heroes.

QUOTE

Alexander, despite being such an ambitious and educated person, still failed in his goal of conquest by dying at such a young age..


That's wrong. His men made mutiny when he wanted to go further east. So he had to go back. It's very unlikely he would ever be able to expand his empire after the mutiny. He died in in northern Africa, probably due to food-poisoning.

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EmperorPsiblade

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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2004, 07:08:00 PM »
Yes but my point was that his empire fell apart from his death...

i do know how his men refused to push on and returned though i didn't mention it due to it not being me point...

Generals and troops are replaceable... i would have executed them on the spot for treason! happy.gif
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Maximumbeing

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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2004, 07:34:00 PM »
Nobody considers Ghengis Khan a hero, except for Mongols, and they don't count.

As for Alexander the Great, it is an appropriate title, as "great" does not imply good.
Webster defines it as
: an outstandingly superior or skillful person

He conquered almost the entire known world at the time, I'm willing to bet that you couldn't have.

I think the movie made Alexander a little too Germanic looking, blonde hair, blue eyes. He came well before the assimilation of Germanic tribes.

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FektionFekler

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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2004, 09:56:00 PM »
Not to mention they spoke with British accents, which is completely accurate as always  rolleyes.gif, another great lesson in history butchered by Hollywood. This really annoys me, but in every fucking movie dealing with some classic theme (Greeks, Romans, etc.) they seem to make everyone speak with a British accent like Britain is the fucking pinnacle of the civilized world. laugh.gif I wish they would just make them speak Greek or Latin subtitles really aren't that bad, and I would much prefer a somewhat more historically accurate recount of periods such as that, over some bullshit Hollywood take on what really happened like Troy, Alexander, King Author, etc.
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pegasys

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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2004, 09:06:00 PM »
Then watch the fucking history channel.
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EmperorPsiblade

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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2004, 09:08:00 PM »
History Channel rox0rz!
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2004, 10:13:00 PM »
Actually it does as I do very much enjoy the history channel. Thank you. smile.gif
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The unProfessional

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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2004, 10:22:00 PM »
You mean the Hitler channel?   wink.gif

actually the've gotten better... for a while there it was NOTHING but WWII
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FektionFekler

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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2004, 10:26:00 PM »
Ah yes that is true, the main topics they covered concerned the Greeks, Romans, World War II, the Cold War, and from time to time "Aliens". I guess my question is what is not to like about those topics? wink.gif
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EmperorPsiblade

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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2004, 10:31:00 PM »
i'll admit i have a strange fascination with all the death and wierd experiments Hitler did.... I thought it was interesting (anyone play Return to Castle Wolfenstein? laugh.gif )

i think we all have a fascination with death and the odd things the lunatic Nazi party did...
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Mr. Chips

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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2004, 01:39:00 AM »
QUOTE
  i'll admit i have a strange fascination with all the death and wierd experiments Hitler did.... I thought it was interesting (anyone play Return to Castle Wolfenstein? laugh.gif )

i think we all have a fascination with death and the odd things the lunatic Nazi party did...

ummm...NO.

ps. my name is Alexander and I was offended by the movie. Even though I haven't seen it.  I'm gonna sue Oliver Stone tongue.gif
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gronne

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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2004, 06:04:00 AM »
I will correct myself, as I went to bed with a book about Alexander I realized I was wrong about where he died and his cause of death. He died in Babylon, not in Egypt. And he died from alcohole-poisoning, not food-poisoning.

And Alexander actually was known as Alexander the awful(or something like that) to the persians. And he DEFINITELY didn't treat the persians nicely, unless you think rape and slaughter of innocents to be nice. However, he did intervene persian traditions with Macedonian traditions. He did that in order to easier handle the persians though.

And many do see Genghis Khan as a hero today as well. And I'm not talking about mongols. But Alexander is definitely more seen as a hero, than Genghis Khan is, but I can't see why. Nothing is great about someone who kill other people and his own friends.

It's acceptible to see a leader who fight for freedom, as a hero. But Alexander didn't fight for anyone's freedom. He only fought for his own ego. For crying out loud, he truly believed he was the son of Zeus. Is not that an insane man?

I hope historians will end this madness, and stop glorifying ruthless murderers. Who knows, one day we might look back at Hitler and Bush as heroes. This world is insane.
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