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Xbox 360 Forums => Xbox 360 Hacking Forums => Software Exploits Development Research => Topic started by: Reidmere on July 03, 2012, 08:47:54 AM

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Reidmere on July 03, 2012, 08:47:54 AM

Hi, I just recently got an X-Box. I flashed the drive, but can't afford Verbatims right now to back up Too Human and Zumba Fitness: Rush.

I noticed there are games you can buy on XBox Live and play directly from the HDD.
I tried to install Zumba from the HDD after installing it, but it asks me to insert the disc.

We lost a lot of stuff in a move (had to leave it behind rather, due to space), and just packed most of our DVDs and games in empty card tins. In other words, we have so many CDs sitting around the living room and entertainment center, I'd prefer to have it installed on my drive, rather than search for the DVDs, especially when we get more.

So my question, is if anyone has ever thought of decrypting the downloaded games' protection to see what makes the system detect the game as being downloaded (downloaded, no CD required) vs protected (installed through drive, required CD).

It just seems like something that when the source is found, could easily be edited on the hard drive by a command line program, either by copying the game to your hard drive first from connecting the DVD Drive to PC, or by loading it to a PC DVD drive.

I did read the rules, know the policy on piracy, but I am trying to back up games sitting on the table in front of me. The reason I named the games, was because those are the only ones I have right now, in case someone knows something about certain games not working with certain programs that I could use.

If anyone wants verification that this is backup, because my living room has more CDs laying around than the amount of people Justin Beiber ****es off, I'd gladly post a picture of my living room, complete with mouse in wire jungle.

And sorry if this had already been done, but I couldn't find anything after about an hour of searching, and just seems odd it wasn't attempted, and a HDD backup of ISOs seems a little less illegal than playing burnt games: especially considering that the price of Vertbatum DVD DLs at the store aren't too much cheaper than games themselves... tongue.gif

Thanks for any help!

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Heimdall on July 03, 2012, 11:11:59 AM

What you are suggesting can't be done - a small matter of digital signatures on all files makes it impossible.

However, you might want to consider a JTAG/RGH mod to your Xbox, or possibly a Wasabi or Xk3y - Google will get you their web sites, and read this post for a comparison of the two.

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Aldanga on July 03, 2012, 12:27:13 PM

Heimdall is, as usual, quite correct.

The suggestion for JTAG/RGH is because said hacked consoles are able to disable signature security. What you have suggested with GoD has been done, but it requires a console with a hacked dashboard to be able to implement. It's unlikely you can implement the JTAG/SMC hack, though it's possible you can RGH your console.

Even so, the suggestion of an optical disc drive emulator (ODDE) is likely the best choice for you.

If you need clarification on any points, please say so. Lots of people don't understand the signing originally, which is why ideas such as what you've suggested seem so obvious to them, but why they cannot be implemented.

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Reidmere on July 05, 2012, 01:27:28 AM

I wasn't saying it wasn't done, just that I haven't seen it done, and wondered if it was, or why not.

I also know that all it would take would be changing the d-sigs. I even know that the D-sig may be dynamic for each game, either based off an MD5 checksum, game ID, or programmed into each game itself, possibly.
I know quite a bit about computers, hardware, programming, exc. I'm just new to hacking anything new, except the Wii, so don't know the specifics.

But one thing it didn't sound like I got the question across properly on, based on reaction:
I'm asking why can't a game header on the hard drive be modified WITHOUT hacking the system?
It seem only logical to be able to run a command line with the drive plugged into the PC, to detect and rewrite the header or signature information to make the 360 detect it as a downloaded game, to be booted without the CD key in the disc drive.

My problem is that I can not afford to buy anything new this month, or maybe for 2, so I can not afford to buy solder, a soldering gun, or a pack of DVD+R DLs. I still want to be able to play the games I play the most often without changing discs, scratching or getting them mixed up.

That also leaves buying a optic drive emu out of the question. This is still something that should be easily done if looked into. Even when I have the money, JTag is out of the question. My Dash is already too high a version to use the exploit. Even if I got an older Dash on another system, wouldn't I still have trouble playing some of the newer games that REQUIRE the newer version of the Dash?

Also, from what I understand so far of the RGH, it still requires soldering, right?
Or is there an alternate method now, I can still do, to play these from the HDD?

Thanks smile.gif

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Heimdall on July 05, 2012, 04:36:51 AM

Your question came across loud and clear, but you didn't read the answers properly.

It doesn't matter where or how you change the game header - it breaks the digital signature, so the game won't run. You need a hacked system. It doesn't matter how much you "know .. about computers, hardware, programming" etc., you can't bypass digital signatures on the Xbox 360.

You also misunderstand how JTAGs work. You need the low dash (7371 or earlier) to start with, in order to hack the system, but you then run a hacked dash. The latest JTAG image builder (360_Multi_Builder_v0.95a_Installer.exe) will build dash version 15574 for you.

RGH and JTAG both require soldering.

There are no other solutions. JTAG, RGH, or one of the ODD emulators.

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Reidmere on July 05, 2012, 04:49:27 AM

Thanks for the reply and info.

One thing I have to contest though, is that there is always a way to forge electronic signatures.
The only reason there was problems playing a burnt disc without a system being hacked, is because the burn method is different, causing regular PC drive users to be unable to use a substitute boot sector.
This can not be emulated, because it's the way their CD burners themselves work.

I see nothing making it impossible to forge the signature to makes a game on a hard drive bootable as if it was downloaded, unless the hardware itself preventing the writing to required sector.
The only thing that seems to be holding us back from doing it, is our own lack of information on it.

Again, thanks for the information, as I'm still new to the scene and needed to know about the Dashes/HW mods. Still, you've not given me any details to say WHY it's an impossibility: just that it's an unfounded idea so far... Remember, nothing is impossible until proven to be!

Which leave me with a curious question: shouldn't JTag be called a hard mod, since you are still required to do something to the hardware? I softmodded a PSP by hardmodding my battery to do it...
Just a thought! wink.gif

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: Heimdall on July 05, 2012, 05:09:28 AM

JTAG is a hard mod, and nobody ever said it wasn't. All Xbox360 mods are hard mods (apart from the original King Kong shader hack, which no longer works).

You can't forge digital signatures. Period. That's why they work, and are trusted to work. There are hundreds of posts from newbies with similar ideas to yours, all of which are based on a complete misunderstanding of how digital signatures work. There are thousands of papers that prove the infeasibility of hacking digital signatures - do some searching and you will find them, but be prepared for some heavy maths.

All of the hacked digital signature systems have had other weaknesses to exploit e.g. poor implementations, buffer overflow / bound checking issues, hardware weaknesses, weak keys - the digital signatures haven't been hacked or forged, just bypassed.

The only reason there was problems playing a burnt disc without a system being hacked, is because the burn method is different
Nonsense, and you are confused. The DVD drive reads the disc from the outside in, but that's simply to make it difficult to read in a conventional DVD drive, and to provide the video partition (read from inside out) that your conventional DVD drive will read. It's the digital signature that prevents us from running hacked games, not the DVD format.

Edited by Heimdall, 05 July 2012 - 02:06 PM.

Title: Backups On Hdd Without Jtag
Post by: ddsdavey on August 10, 2012, 02:49:26 PM

Its very easy to hack stuff in thory!
No offence but alot of what you say may make sense but wont work on the 360,yopu make ALOT of assumptions.
I find it funny when people say stuff like "all we would have to do is..."

I have been away for awhile I just got a new slim with drive dg-16d5s 1532 in it. Can that be flashed and if so how much do you charge?

Title: NULL
Post by: 'xboxdawg' on August 17, 2012, 12:24:33 PM
               Save up your money and either do a RGH or if you plan to play on live get an Xkey and external hard drive.