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Xbox 360 Forums => Xbox360 Hardware Forums => Xbox360 General Hardware Chat => Topic started by: maikrotex on September 07, 2013, 05:13:50 PM

Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: maikrotex on September 07, 2013, 05:13:50 PM

hello

I hope its right here.
I added kabels from the phatt power pack to the slim box and get the wrong pin. i think i take the usb 5v or so. now the xbox dead. i open it and the same electrical components are burned.

please help and let me know what for components i need. cant read the identify.

IPB Image




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 01, 2011, 04:30:09 PM

I need expert help. I picked up a Slim today for dirt cheap that has no power. Checked and doesn't seem to be missing any components and I am getting 5V Standby but I don't get 3.3V Standby. I based myself on this.

When I picked it up, it had a few pins in the AV port that was crooked and touching ground. Not sure if it's relevent, but possibly.

Power Supply works on another Slim. RF Board and touch buttons works on another Slim.

Any help would be much appreciated.

http://xbox-experts....sources_top.jpg (http://../xbox-experts.com/pics/xbox_360_slim_mainboard_power%20sources_top.jpg)




Edited by RDC, 02 September 2011 - 12:47 AM.


Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: Ironman268 on September 01, 2011, 08:55:16 PM

I don't know about the slim, but I know that a lot of the no power issues on the phat consoles were due to blown MOSFET chips. May want to check those.




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 02, 2011, 04:38:27 AM

Seems like there's no mosfets like the Phat Xbox for Standby 5V. I did notice two components (5 legs on each) thats seems to be what converts 5V to 3.3V and 5V to 1.8V. U5A1 and U5B1.

I tested another Slim and one one of the chips, two legs have 5V and one has 3.3V. The other chip, two legs with 5V and one with 1.8V. Can anyone confirm that these two parts are what I think they are and if so, any clue where I could find replacements?

I did search what is on the chip, but can't really find anything.

IPB Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/unledyzn.jpg/)


Thanks




Edited by pg0d1n, 02 September 2011 - 12:45 PM.


Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 02, 2011, 10:18:33 AM

Also, Light on Power Supply turns Orange and stays Orange.






Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: wilgo45 on September 04, 2011, 03:35:03 AM

Hey

Try Digikey for parts.  They work for me.  They are here in the USA.  Great prices and very helpful over the phone.  www.digikey.com    -  Mouser is not bad either

You can also try OnSemi conductors.  They will send you a samplers pack for like $11.  You can get a variety of things.  Mosfets, transistors, crystals, buck converters

Let me know if this helps.  Willing to offer more suggestions too




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 04, 2011, 05:53:38 AM

Hey

Try Digikey for parts.  They work for me.  They are here in the USA.  Great prices and very helpful over the phone.  www.digikey.com    -  Mouser is not bad either

You can also try OnSemi conductors.  They will send you a samplers pack for like $11.  You can get a variety of things.  Mosfets, transistors, crystals, buck converters

Let me know if this helps.  Willing to offer more suggestions too



I know where to get parts, I just don't know what part to get. The letters on chips are not a part number.

As far as paying $11 for a sampler pack, I highly doubt that it would it in considering I can't find anything about those.

Thank anyways,




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 04, 2011, 06:57:25 AM

So here are the parts I need. There is no Part number on them. ADLRSU is not a part number.
Any help would be appreciated.

Pic 1 (http://../img692.imageshack.us/img692/9498/slimmb1.html)

Pic 2 (http://../img24.imageshack.us/img24/6224/slimmb2.html)




Edited by pg0d1n, 04 September 2011 - 02:58 PM.


Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 04, 2011, 01:24:14 PM

Some progress made.

I decided to discharge all the capacitors, unsolder those two regulators/mosfets and resolder them. I now get 1.8V on the board. I put the 1.8V regulator where the 3.3V is, and I get 2.3V which confirms that the regulators are different and that my 3.3V is shot.

I will take the 3.3V off a working slim that I have and put it on to see if the board will power up.

So I guess I'm just stuck waiting for soomeone to figure out what's the part number for those.

Hope this help someone else.

IPB Image (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/slimvoltageregulators.jpg/)




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: RDC on September 04, 2011, 08:24:54 PM

Never messed with a Slim here yet, so take all of this with a grain of salt, but I'll wager that the Regulators are the same, just adjustable instead of fixed values like in the older 360. The Resistors around them are most likely what set the voltage output, like an LM117/LM317. You can measure them to tell, if they're different values from each other then that's a good indicator they're an adjustable type.

Any Reg you put in the 3.3v spot is not going to output 3.3v if the problem is on that 3.3v rail, unless it has enough current to fry whatever is causing the issue, then you'll just have a larger mess, which granted right now it's not going to be an easy fix from what you've already tried and the results from it. That 3.3v could be anything from power for the Southbridge, to almost anything else on the board, like the older 360s.







Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 05, 2011, 05:27:53 AM

Never messed with a Slim here yet, so take all of this with a grain of salt, but I'll wager that the Regulators are the same, just adjustable instead of fixed values like in the older 360. The Resistors around them are most likely what set the voltage output, like an LM117/LM317. You can measure them to tell, if they're different values from each other then that's a good indicator they're an adjustable type.

Any Reg you put in the 3.3v spot is not going to output 3.3v if the problem is on that 3.3v rail, unless it has enough current to fry whatever is causing the issue, then you'll just have a larger mess, which granted right now it's not going to be an easy fix from what you've already tried and the results from it. That 3.3v could be anything from power for the Southbridge, to almost anything else on the board, like the older 360s.



You're right. The regulator for the 1.8V is also defective. I took it off and put it back on, it gave me 0.98V. Took it off again anf put it back on, 1.8V. Was giving me 0V when I got it.

So yes they are the same. RDC, could I ask you to modify my post above where I state that they are different. Don't want to misslead people.


And the part number for the regulator is UPA572T. I'll hopefully have some on order tomorrow. Probably gonna buy 20 or so. If you or anyone ever need some...  cool.gif




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: RDC on September 05, 2011, 07:13:27 AM

How did you come to the UPA572T part number? That's a dual N-channel FET which is used more for switching applications. It's also in the SC-70 package, which is about as large as an 0805, same size roughly as the Cap C5A9 there next to U5A1, and since it's a little larger than that, it doesn't seem to be the correct part number.





Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 05, 2011, 07:55:55 AM

You're right. After mesuring the chip, that is not in a sc-70 package.  sc-70 package is 2mm wide and this one is 3mm wide.

I got this information from Johnny2Good from TX.

Any clue on what it may be?

Thanks,

Phil




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: RDC on September 05, 2011, 04:16:09 PM

I had a look thru that thread, and if that's their idea of an 'expert answer' I wouldn't ask many more questions there. I can think of several components off the top of my head that are in that SOT-5 style package, but only one of therm is going to be worth putting in there, and I'm not going to waste your time with uneducated guesses either.

I still think it's an adjustable Regulator (or possibly a shunt) based on what it does as well as how it's laid out on the board there, and from the pics and descriptions you've posted, but without having a working Slim here to check personally and gather more info on I still wouldn't say for sure what it might be. Some SMD part markings are just  impossible to track down or cross reference, even if you know the  company that made them it can seem like it just doesn't exist.

The best thing to do right now would be to get replacement from another Slim, but without knowing the shape it's in they could be bad, or you could fry the replacement parts testing them from a good one and end up with 2 dead Slims.

If you, or anyone really, has a working one they can (very carefully) check the voltages on every pin of each of those (U5A1 and U5B1) with reference to ground, both plugged up sitting in Standby (off) as well as with it turned on, that would help out some, but it's still not like having one on hand to test.





Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 06, 2011, 03:19:41 PM

Alright, made some progress. Didn't take both apart and test yet, but here what I got.

It's a SOT25 Package.
Output is on Pin 3
Ground is on Pin 2
Pin 1 and Pin4 both have 5V.
Pin 5 must be what adjusts.


RDC,

I will take my good Slim apart and read voltage from each pins from Standby and On later tonight.

At least seems like we're on the right track.

I can confirm that another Slim had marking : OSORS




Edited by pg0d1n, 06 September 2011 - 11:21 PM.


Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: RDC on September 06, 2011, 08:46:37 PM

The SOT25, SOT   23-5, SOT5, SOP5, TSOT 23-5 and TSOT-5 are all pretty much the same thing, so   narrowing it down by just one package style really can't be done with   this thing, but, I finally found something that has what I believe to be that pinout, in that package (SOT 23-5) and makes sense, but again I'm not 100% on it as nothing crosses to the markings on your chips, so if you or anyone plans to try it out do so at your own risk, well risk to the Slim anyway.
 
 I had a longer look at your pics, and that Inductor was the key. At first I thought it was there just for the output, like a filter, but   then after looking at it more I decided to get away from the strict   Regulator definition line of thinking (LDO type) like the older 360 used. First off they don't really have the   current being that small, and second there wouldn't be any real need for that Inductor there   if it were an LDO type. So I tossed that line of looking for   parts out the window and went with something that could output more current, as well as be more complex because of that Inductor, since simple wasn't   getting us anywhere.
 
 Now the kind of Regulators that use an Inductor are Switching (Buck -   Boost type) and since it's going from 5v to 3.3v or 1.8v then it's a   Step Down, and I still believe it's Adjustable because both seem to be the same part, but are for different voltages. More specifically it seems to be a Synchronous Step Down   Converter. Which I believe could be the SP6669AEK-L from Exar.

http://www.exar.com/...RevG_120208.pdf (http://www.exar.com/Files/Documents/sipex/DataSheets/SP6669_DS_RevG_120208.pdf)

Again, this is all pretty much a wild stab in the dark, and for right now just my best guess at the thing. It may need to be rated at 1A like the older Regs were, but I'd doubt it as that 5vsb was only 1A and fed both Regs on the older board, so the Exar (600mA) might be more than big enough, again if it's even a suitable replacement. I'd personally give it a shot if it were mine and I was messing with the thing, but yet again, it's only a guess as to what the part may be since it doesn't cross to anything yet.




Edited by RDC, 07 September 2011 - 04:48 AM.


Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 07, 2011, 04:08:14 AM

The SOT25, SOT   23-5, SOT5, SOP5, TSOT 23-5 and TSOT-5 are all pretty much the same thing, so   narrowing it down by just one package style really can't be done with   this thing, but, I finally found something that has what I believe to be that pinout, in that package (SOT 23-5) and makes sense, but again I'm not 100% on it as nothing crosses to the markings on your chips, so if you or anyone plans to try it out do so at your own risk, well risk to the Slim anyway.
 
 I had a longer look at your pics, and that Inductor was the key. At first I thought it was there just for the output, like a filter, but   then after looking at it more I decided to get away from the strict   Regulator definition line of thinking (LDO type) like the older 360 used. First off they don't really have the   current being that small, and second there wouldn't be any real need for that Inductor there   if it were an LDO type. So I tossed that line of looking for   parts out the window and went with something that could output more current, as well as be more complex because of that Inductor, since simple wasn't   getting us anywhere.
 
 Now the kind of Regulators that use an Inductor are Switching (Buck -   Boost type) and since it's going from 5v to 3.3v or 1.8v then it's a   Step Down, and I still believe it's Adjustable because both seem to be the same part, but are for different voltages. More specifically it seems to be a Synchronous Step Down   Converter. Which I believe could be the SP6669AEK-L from Exar.

http://www.exar.com/...RevG_120208.pdf (http://www.exar.com/Files/Documents/sipex/DataSheets/SP6669_DS_RevG_120208.pdf)


Again, this is all pretty much a wild stab in the dark, and for right now just my best guess at the thing. It may need to be rated at 1A like the older Regs were, but I'd doubt it as that 5vsb was only 1A and fed both Regs on the older board, so the Exar (600mA) might be more than big enough, again if it's even a suitable replacement. I'd personally give it a shot if it were mine and I was messing with the thing, but yet again, it's only a guess as to what the part may be since it doesn't cross to anything yet.



I did not know about those packages. I guess that's why you're the expert  biggrin.gif

Thank you so much. I strongly believe that is the part number by reading the datasheet. I just ordered a dozen of them (hopefully it's the right part). I ordered the SP6669AEK-L/TRR3

I'll keep you posted on how it goes when they come in.

There is another user on XE that has the same problem. His are shot too. So obviously, this is something that we will see more in the future.

Thanks,

Phil




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: RDC on September 07, 2011, 04:53:39 PM

I doubt the Regulator is the only problem, but if it does fix it then later versions of the Slim will have that section revamped for sure. Odds are though the issue is on that 3.3v or 1.8v standby rail loading them down.




Edited by RDC, 08 September 2011 - 12:54 AM.


Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: pg0d1n on September 07, 2011, 05:00:53 PM

I also believe that there is a problem down the 3.3V rail. Problem is where to look.
We'll se when the parts come in.

If it doesn't fix it and I can't find the problem, well, I paid $60 for it. Came with a 250GB hard drive and a wireless controller.

Would rather fix it, but worst comes to worst, I know I can double my money easy.




Title: Experts Needed - Slim With No Power
Post by: RDC on September 07, 2011, 05:16:26 PM

I'm sure the core of it's not far off from the older 360, which means most of that 3.3vsb line is for powering the RF (RoL) board, which has already been tested as good, and then the Southbridge, which there's no point in even trying to repair unless you have access to that kind of equipment and a good one to swap it out with. It could be something like a shorted SMD Cap on that 3.3vsb line as well, like you said, where to start looking for that needle in a stack of needles is the problem, and even with a schematic troubleshooting a motherboard is one of the worst things to attempt. Good luck with it.