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Xbox1 Forums => Software Forums => Windows on Xbox => Topic started by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 12:46:53 AM

Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 12:46:53 AM

In one of my previous threads it was brought to my attention that the reason Windows will not run on the Xbox is because of the checks that are run by Windows.  Thank you Scan-C for bringing this to my attention.  I had suggested that a bios hack would be a solution, but this brings it's own problems because of the complexity of the code which would be required to get this going.  We obviously cannot alter Windows to run because we do not have the source, so we must get the checks to pass and we should be home free, or at least past a major obstacle standing in our way.  The problems as addressed by Scan-C in the previous thread are:

"There's no source code for Windows.  It has to not address some areas of the ram because this locks up the Xbox, and it has to not scan the pci bus otherwise, lockup.  These are the major problems with Windows.  Another thing are the drivers, there are none.  The people who have Windows running use it through Bochs or Linux with VMWare.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be hard and without source code you will need a way to readdress the ramparts and stop the pci buxs scan.  It's exactly the part where I am with my FreeDOS port.  I'm just lacking the programming skills, but I'm learning right now biggrin.gif at least FreeDOS is open source so I can rewrite it.  A bios would be pretty complicated, but maybe load a program into memory that does this [forces the checks to pass] before the actual Windows bootloader kicks in.  What I mean is some kind of a layer between hardware and Windows.  I'm not experienced enough to write such code, but I think it should be possible."

To sum things up, I am proposing that if the proper code were loaded into memory to force the ram checks and pci bus scan to pass, as well as support the NTFS file structure, we should be at least one GIANT step forward in running Windows on our Xbox EFFICIENTLY.  GreenGiant is working on a project for me that will allow remote HDD switching, you will be able to reconfigure settings such as button 1 will boot hard drive 1, bios bank 2, dvd drive 2, etc. through a program run on the Xbox.  This will work by storing the settings to memory on either a SmartXX or Xenium chip.  I do not know why it will work on those chips, but those were the examples he gave me when explaining how it works, but I do know it will require a modchip.  This is relevant because it proves that it is possible to establish the "layer between hardware and Windows" explained by Scan-C.  Further, this also proves that it will boot the information stored to memory before the Windows bootloader.  That said, I am trying to gather other useful information that may either support, or prove this idea impossible, or to not be a feasible solution.  ANY insight on this idea will help.  We need to know things such as:

Do you think this will work?  Why?/Why not?
Do you think this is a good idea?  Why?/Why not?
Are there any conflicts you know of which will cause problems getting this to work?
Do you have the skills to get a start/help on this project?
Do you know anyone that has the necessary skills to get a start/help with this project?
Do you have any information that will help with the project?

Regards,
 -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on September 24, 2004, 09:33:03 AM

wow i almost forgot about this.
as is said we would need some kind of layer. i don't know enough about what windows is doing at boot time. if it erases everything stored in the ram our layer would also be deleted.
someone who knows what windows exactly does while it's loading?

for the ntfs filesystem... this won't be a problem. once the windows setup is running it can reformat the hdd to fat32 which cromwell supports. isn't ideal if you still want to be able to play xbox games laugh.gif but that's a problem you can think about when windows is at least booting up.

as for storing things on a mod... the smartxx and xenium have some kind of os and this let's you choose which drive to power over their spi bus with some additional hardware. at least that is what i think greengiatn trys to accomplish. this won't work for the needed layer tho...




Edited by Scan-C, 24 September 2004 - 09:24 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 02:15:52 PM

Thanks for the additional information.  I realize that Windows will make the NTFS partition, what I was saying is that I do not know if the Xbox hardware will support the file structure, only questioning this because I know currently we have to have a FATX partition to use upgraded hard drives.  As for being able to play games still, like you said this issue can be addressed later, it is already solved for me through the project GreenGiant is working on to allow remote HDD switching.  I had not thought about Windows wiping our layer.  Since what we would be doing is forcing it to send a response back telling Windows that the checks passed, wouldn't it be possible to write protect our layer, or just do the same thing with the wipe if this is what it does.  What I mean is, not allow Windows to wipe the memory, then send a generated response back that it wiped successfully.  This is of course assuming that Windows actually does wipe the memory entirely.  Once we get our research, thoughts, ideas, suggestions, conflicts, comments, etc. together, we need to approach somebody with the skills necessary to at the very least get a start on the project.  We have tried all the other possibilities with no luck or "real" progress besides a very poorly running Windows, it's time to do things right and get this project off the ground.

EDIT:  Almost forgot this, if anybody knows of GOOD forums regarding Windows that would help us compile the information we need to know about the boot processes, please don't hesitate to post.  If you are interested in helping gather information for the project so we can get things off the ground, PM me.  Scan-C can I count you in?  It seems like you are interested to see if this is the path to light or just another dead end.  I am positive there is light at the end of this tunnel, we just have to generate the interest and have our facts together before attempting to make it happen!




Edited by h8raid, 24 September 2004 - 10:23 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on September 24, 2004, 03:09:57 PM

no one should bother with ntfs for now. fat32 is easier and already implemented in cromwell. would be nice but can be done later too.

yes count me in. i'm a linux fanatic but this is a challenge and it would be nice to get it going.

the thing about the boot process makes me think of a version we want to try. i think windows 2000 prof would be best here. isn't outdated but doesn't need as much resources as xp.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on September 24, 2004, 06:10:47 PM

UPDATE!  Scan-C has done some work already gathering information about the boot processes and has done some analyzing of exactly what happens.  I am attempting to contact Xantium to inform him of the project to hopefully get more people involved here.  Come on coders, everybody has said running Windows on the Xbox smoothly would never happen.  This is going to be a huge breakthrough and your chance to show your skills if you haven't already had the opportunity, get involved!




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on September 27, 2004, 08:25:36 AM

alright, i think this is a great project being started here. First let me say i think we should work on embedded rather then xp.. because we can then code it ourself, and it doesn't take NEAR as many resources then even win95 to run.. and no extra services, just what we need.. only problem is that we would need experienced coders to code embedded to work properly..

if i can help in any way pm me.. ive been taking "coding class" at the UofC for a year and a half now and im not bad in the coding part but ive never coded xboxs before... wink.gif  seriously.. great project and i really hope we can get windows running on the box in some way!




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on September 29, 2004, 12:53:22 AM

nice to have you on the project.

for embedded i already told h8raid that it would be illegal to release it without license. that was my main reason to pick 2000. it's up to date, can do anything that xp can and everyone can buy it. if we can develop some kind of bootloader which runs in cromwell everyone could download our code completely legal and install their copy of 2000.
on the other side xpe would be running at great speed and maybe we could leave out the pci bus scan (don't know for sure).
some kind of hard decision biggrin.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on September 29, 2004, 02:58:18 PM

so theres no way we can use embedded on the xbox legaly? because that would beet linux in a second if we got it working properly.. maybe we could bend the rules muhaha.gif  never know.. but everything else is illegal for the xbox anywayz, but well have to see.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on September 30, 2004, 07:04:19 AM

not really. everyone would have to get their own license. the same goes for 2000 or any other windows version but xpe is expensive compared to 2000. as for beating linux... i don't think so. xpe is fast but the memory management still sucks.

h8raid and i talked about xpe and 2000 pro. don't know if he already told you what we want to use but i think he wrote something like that.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on September 30, 2004, 05:17:58 PM

why not use a final beta version of win2000 or embedded, osbetaarchive.com have talked to MS and ms says its ok to download and install betas so long as no money is paid for the beta.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Snout on October 01, 2004, 04:49:12 AM

I have a copy of the windows 2000 source if needed  comp.gif  




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 01, 2004, 03:24:51 PM

the source code that was leaked is for servicepack 1,it is not the source code for windows 2000.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: klik on October 02, 2004, 09:03:54 AM

Chech this out.
http://msdn.MS.com/l...tml/ram_sdi.asp (http://msdn.ms.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnxpesp1/html/ram_sdi.asp)
Why don't make a XP Embedded image, put it in a xbe and ram boot it.





Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 02, 2004, 09:29:13 AM

thats what i was thinking!! wink.gif  BY THE WAY! im taking a programming course at the university and theres a kid in my class thats 13 years old and hes a t.a for us and knows more then half the teachers in the university about programming.. Im trying to get him involved and he seems interested but hes never used an xbox before and knows nothing about them, but i think he could pick up quick, and get this thing rolling!




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 02, 2004, 09:22:46 PM

Wow! I have been in classes all this week so have not checked the thread recently.  Glad to see this project is generating interest, pm me with your credentials to get onboard with the team.  Fire, definately keep trying to get that boy involved, haha, sounds like he would be an asset.  If needbe, you could always show him around your xbox so he can get familiar with things, and we can get him on these forums so he can check things out and get to know how things work.  There is a wealth of information on these boards, and really just reading up on the boards would help immensely.  Klik, good idea, that is basically what we are attempting.  What we are doing is establishing a layer between hardware and Windows to solve the problems that are causing the Xbox to lock up.  I think it was already discussed earlier in this thread, so in a nutshell, Windows runs checks that cause the Xbox to crash.  Our layer will stop these checks before they run and force a response back telling Windows that it passed.  I am sure we are going to run into several other issues along the way, but this is a starting point.  Also, I would like to make not to everybody that the "other project" mentioned on this board by the_devil73 about hacking a bios.  I got a response from him after inquiring about their progress and informing them of this project.  Funny stuff going on there, the guy is obviously full of shit and to my knowledge HAS NO PROGRESS, he told me they are on a 10 million dollar budget and paying coders.  They also, told me they are a group of seniors and 3 willing teachers.  The person who responded stated he is only 16.  I don't know something about a team like that having a 10 million dollar budget just sounds like a load of shit, he refused to communicate anything feasible that they had progressed on, talking about such things as they are working on using sections of the 2000 source to build their own version of Xbox-Windows, codenamed XWindows.  Lol!  Come on, then telling about hacking a PC based bios to run windows on the Xbox :::cough::: bullshit :::cough:::  Scan-C if you still have the PM that I forwarded to you, would you please post it in here for all to see, if you don't want to, just send it back to me and I will do it.  Thanks.




Title: NULL
Post by: 'the_devil73' on October 03, 2004, 09:54:38 AM
'
                Don't thread crap.
               
               

               


                     Edited by mrRobinson, 04 October 2004 - 08:55 PM.
                     
                  


            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'betaluva' on October 04, 2004, 05:26:21 PM
'
                 MS Corp. today announced the availability of a free technology preview for Windows XP Embedded with Service Pack 2 (SP2) for download and testing. Windows XP Embedded delivers the power of Windows in componentized form to enable device-makers to rapidly build reliable and advanced small-footprint devices such as point-of-service (POS) kiosks, medical systems and thin clients.

Windows XP Embedded with SP2 Technology Preview is available for download via the Windows Embedded Web site. Delivering on MS's commitment to make new Windows XP Embedded technologies available within 90 days of the client release, Windows XP Embedded SP2 will ship in the second half of 2004.
http://www.MS.com/do...&displaylang=en                                    
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'h8raid' on October 04, 2004, 11:56:53 PM
'
                Nice update on the latest release, I will head over there and check it out.  We have decided to go ahead and work with XP Embedded exactly for the reasons mentioned above.  It is a perfect platform for our goals, we want a stable uncluttered environment that will run efficiently.  At the same time this platform will also support everything you will get with XP, only with Embedded, you have more control over things at startup, thus giving you a more powerful operating system.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'klik' on October 05, 2004, 03:32:30 PM
'
                Windows PE could be the first step.  It is Windows Preinstallation Environment. It comes with every XP installation disk. But you need extract it out with some script and tools. A great tool for recovery if your XP die.
It is supposed to run on any hardware and have most funtionalities of XP. It can be used to run Target Analyzer(MS XP embedded site has an article about it). But it is pretty large(150M) so it is impossible to boot from RAM.  Maybe someone can turn CD boot sector code into a XBE, then put every thing on to a CD and let XBox boot it. I suppose Windows PE can read file from the CD if the CD is in ISO format.  Now the only obstacle is that XBOX crashes when Windows scans PCI bus.   Maybe someone could change a few bytes in Windows binary  tongue.gif

               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'betaluva' on October 05, 2004, 05:32:05 PM
'
                you need a custom bios for the xbox to boot winPE,trust me ,people have allready tried, it looks like a custom cromwell bios would be the best bet.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'fire2501' on October 05, 2004, 07:33:14 PM
'
                alright then, our next step is to get some bios coders because this sounds like the biggest obstical  wink.gif  
               
               

               
            '
Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 05, 2004, 08:43:38 PM

Alright guys, this is sort of unrelated, but the headline right now about Mac OS running is interesting news to say the least.  I realize the two OS are completely different, however, the techniques these guys used are interesting.  Check out their site and review some of their works.  It would be nice if we may be able to find a similar solution to what these guys have done.  I am going to do some research on pearPC to see exactly what it is.  I am assuming it is a Mac tool, and unfortunately, I am not familiar at all with Mac.  My goal here is to see what exact role that portion of their install plays, the way their site reads, it sets up the installation environment.  It will be interesting to see what is really going on more in depth with their installation of the Mac OS.  Once again, I realize the two OS are completely different, I am only suggesting their methods of installation may be worth taking a look at, I do not expect it to be a solution for us to do something similar, however, their methods could very well be tweaked to suit our needs and make things a bit easier on our part.  Let's get some feedback on this, I am going to go ahead and start researching, if anybody is more knowledgable, please give us your input in this thread.
Edit:  Oops, forgot about something else that was recently brought up in the thread.  Scan-C and I had previously discussed the possibility of a modified Cromwell bios to boot.  It is true that the bios would be the most effective way to get things working, however, there are other things which I am sure Fire knows to be a bigger problem with this idea.  The amount and complexity of the coding would be insane, and would most likely make the solution extremely difficult at best to implement.  If there is anybody that would like to get onboard with the team and start working on this idea, please send a PM.  The thing that needs to be realized is that there are underlying obstacles we are currently unaware of with getting Windows to run.  What this means is that our first project may work, but it may get to a certain point, and an alternate route must be taken.  For this reason, I would like to see a few different approaches to this project, this will establish a few key things.  It will allow members of the team to learn what is going on with the installation from different perspectives which will help when another part of the team reaches a stopping point.  Hopefully, the knowledge gained from one side of the project will help solve problems later on, and we will end up with a few solutions to the problem whether than just having one way to do things.  This in turn, will make for a more successful project in my opinion as it would be more versatile in the end.
Regards,
  -H8raid




Edited by h8raid, 06 October 2004 - 04:50 AM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 05, 2004, 10:11:48 PM

thought thesemight help,                                                                          differences between ms fat and fatx ,http://www.xbox-linux.org/docs/msbios.html                                                                    understanding the xbox bootprocess,http://www.xbox-linux.org/docs/msbios.html                                                                                                      




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 05, 2004, 10:15:15 PM

RE: mac osx on xbox,they are just using pear-pc for linux, if you need info about mac-osx more just ask.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 01:55:48 AM

pearpc is only a powerpc emulator. would be like we are using vmware and tell we got windows running.

h8raid and i were discussing about remote booting xpe as cromwell supports the pxe remote boot client. i'm looking over this right now and i want to at least get cromwell to catch the image file.
the idea with a bootloader xbe which acts as cdrom boot sector sounds pretty good to me. we should at least be able to get pe showing a system message before it crashes. anyone who could code such xbe?




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 01:58:52 AM

h8raid, i saw your post just now. was really busy as you know.

Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 06, 2004, 02:41:50 AM

Haha, I have been really busy myself with these classes, thanks for posting that I was looking for it in my PMs but its gotten lost, lol.  Also, after I started looking into PearPC that's what I found out, so that shoots down that idea.  Looks like they just did the same thing people are doing to run windows through bochs only with their own stuff instead.  Oh well, I also like the idea of a bootloader xbe as well.  Also just to let everyone know, betaluva is going to be helping out, mostly he will be researching and maintaining the thread.  Meanwhile, xantium still has not responded so I am assuming he is not interested in the project.  Looking for programmers!  We need a classified ad on X-S homepage. laugh.gif Well, if anybody knows any programmers/wants to help recruit, we need the extra help.
Regards,
  -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 06, 2004, 06:12:19 AM

yea we do need an add on the x-s home page, say like windows on xbox project brought back into play, we need experienced xbox coders that would like to help with the project. wink.gif

oh and by the way, yes embedded will take alot to code... right now im looking at images of embedded that other people have coded that might relate to the xbox a little more, then we may be able to work from that wink.gif  




Edited by fire2501, 06 October 2004 - 02:13 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: klik on October 06, 2004, 06:13:59 AM

There is award bios source floating around p2p. Maybe that one could be referenced instead of cromwell bios.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 06:23:52 AM

Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 06, 2004, 12:28:20 PM

With regard to the bios source floating around.  We should definately have somebody looking at this.  Scan-C I know you said you are on it, lol, keep us posted on it.  I will agree that bios seems like the best way to get the job done, but will also be the most difficult.  If the Cromwell source can be extracted and the Award source can be extracted, we may be able to get somewhere like that.  So basically extract the source then, break it down and compare differences.  Then go ahead and do what Scan-C said and use bits and pieces of the different source to build yourself a nice modified Cromwell bootloader! biggrin.gif Now if only it were that easy.  Anybody feel like trying to get a clipping up on X-S with the latest news, they would probably let us post a news clipping on the homepage.  That would be cool because with a link to this thread, tons of traffic because X-S news goes out on tons of RSS feeds, and other sites have it linked to the high heavens.  Lots of advertisement to coders needed!  Well, whoever wants to take on this task just let me know.
Regards,
  -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 06, 2004, 02:50:24 PM

i already looked over code i extracted from an award bios. doesn't help much i think. we need an award bios that's used on a nvidia nforce motherboard and my researches brought up that amibios is used everytime. if someone knows of a motherboard using the nforce chipset together with an award bios let me know!!!

btw cromwell is open source so it doesn't need to be extracted.




Edited by Scan-C, 06 October 2004 - 10:52 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 06, 2004, 04:59:55 PM

i have 2 apps if you want them ,app1=IND BIOS 500,

Release info:
-------------

We are a group of xbox enthusiasts that just wasnt satisfied in how far BIOS
development has come, and decided to take matters into our own hands.
Basically, we went through the current bioses feature lists, and the requested
bios hacks thread on forums.xbox-scene.com, and implemented all that we could.
We are open to most feature suggestions, especially if you feel that you can
help implement them.  We are aware of 2 of the most requested features that we
have not done; xbox live hack, and embedded ftp.  The former we will not be
touching, sorry.  As for the later, never say never! smile.gif

We know how many people love to customize their bios to fit their exact needs,
and we made an effort to make every option that we could configurable.  All of
the configurable options are controlled by a .cfg file (ini style) on the
xbox hard drive.  We have included a win32 application that will edit this
file for you, which should eleminate user error for the most part.

Loading the config file from the disk requires a short delay while the IDE is
initialized. If you don't like the delay you can inject your config file into
the BIOS with our ConfigInjector tool. Note that an injected config does have
its disadvantages. Please see the ConfigInjector readme.txt for more info.

Please remember that this is our first public release, and bugs are expected.
Please report all bugs in the bios forum, on forums.xbox-scene.com, or #ind-bios
on EFnet.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 06, 2004, 05:01:43 PM

and app2 =KernelBasher 1.0

Instructions
O.k launch kernelbasher and open the bios you wish to edit. 4981,4983 & M7 are supported in this release, might work with other bioses, might not. Select Patch to save, outputted bios is called bashed.bin.

Improvements/Additions

- RGB Sliders
- Improved xfile & bios validation
- Random Camera Animation
- Lots of X files to play with





Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 06, 2004, 05:30:40 PM

all motherboards that use the nforce chip,http://www.nvidia.com/object/motherboards.html




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 06, 2004, 05:46:04 PM

Nice work Scan-C!  I did a little googling and the very first page I saw seems like it has at least the information you are looking for about an award bios based on the nforce chipset.  What exactly are your thoughts here?  I am assuming you are going to see if you can extract pieces of the bios and fit them into the Cromwell, but doesn't Cromwell already have this?  I honestly don't know myself, but it would seem like it would already be there, unless you want to modify what's already there so it will pass the checks?  I am a little lost on this one, but I get the general idea of what you are trying to accomplish.  Anyway, here is the link to the site, close to the end it says the bios is based on Award 6.00 or something like that.

Hope this is what you need! (http://www.digit-life.com/articles/nforcerefboard/)

Regards,
  -H8raid

EDIT:  Here is an excerpt from that site that is actually quite interesting for our purposes and seems that it would prove very useful if we can obtain the source.

The BIOS is based on the v6.00 from Award and includes a great deal of possibilities for adjusting memory timings, AGP and PCI buses operation and a possibility to distribute manually interrupts among PCI slots. The FSB frequency can be changed from 100 to 200 MHz in 1 MHz steps. The core voltage can be changed +/- 0.1V in 0.025V steps and the memory voltage can be lifted by 0.7V from the rated value in 0.1V increments.  




Edited by h8raid, 07 October 2004 - 01:49 AM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 07, 2004, 01:21:03 AM

duh -.- i must've used the wrong keywords or something.
thanks i'll look if my idea is possible with this one. i'm thinking how hard it is to modify a bios to start the xbox. the nforce boards seem to be nearly the same so i wanted to at least look at it.




Edited by Scan-C, 07 October 2004 - 09:30 AM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 07, 2004, 04:51:04 AM

Great!  I am looking forward to hearing your results.  I got really excited when I read this part "The BIOS is based on the v6.00 from Award and includes a great deal of possibilities for adjusting memory timings, AGP and PCI buses operation and a possibility to distribute manually interrupts among PCI slots."  If you could elaborate on this a bit, to me it looks like it is exactly what we need.  Control over the PCI operation because we know the PCI bus scan Windows does causes the Xbox to crash.  Depending on your results of whether or not we can use anything here or not, that should at least get us over one major hurdle.  Scan-C, you should send me a PM I just realized something funny that I am guessing you are realizing too.  Anywho, if this works out it will be exactly the kind of progress we need to get more interest and get other experienced coders on the project so you won't be by yourself anymore, haha.  Alright well it's 8:00 am here now and I have not been to bed yet so I am out like a fat kid in dodgeball.
Regards,
  -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Code-X on October 08, 2004, 04:22:10 AM

Anyone thought about using OpenXDK to develop a free BootLoader. I Have a lot of Experience in Win32 if this project gets going.

I think we should make a list of ToDo's.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 08, 2004, 09:35:27 AM

got a little progress! the kid at the university wants his xbox modded this weekend so hes bringing it to me.. hes also been looking at embedded quite a bit and i might have him on the team in the next week! im going to some more research on embedded this week and see what i can come up with by tuesday. wink.gif


oh by the way if anyone wants to hear something postive

off the MS website, an embedded discussion

Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 09, 2004, 04:44:11 PM

@Code-X, welcome to the team.  We are working hard to get things moving here.  As you can see from the thread, we have been doing our homework before starting anything so we don't end up going down a dead-end road.  To get more details on the progress, contact fire and scan.  Scan-C is on a business trip this week so he will most likely not be heard from until he is back from that.  We talked before he left and he is hoping to get in touch with some people on his trip that would be able to help us out so we might have a few more on board when he gets back!  I am pleased to be able to say we are getting things done, if you want to start on a todo list, that is an excellent idea.  We could also use a site if anybody wants to allow us to use a server.  Unfortunately, my internet is down for the moment, modem crapped out two days ago.  So in order for me to do anything, I have to use other peoples connections.  Also, please note that we are doing everything possible to keep this project legal, the bios ideas that were discussed are not going to be used for any public releases, the only reason this would even be attempted would be if it would be easier to get it to work initially so we can go ahead and get through the process and learn from it then go ahead and tackle the rest of the bootloader.

@Fire, glad to hear that we are not attempting anything in vein.  I know for sure I would be able to run it when my box gets back from Friendtech.  The next time I see her, she is going to have 128Mb ram and a nice 1.4Ghz processor.  Sucks for game compatibility, but for our reasons, it is perrrrrrfect.  After they get more of these boxes out to the public, I look for somebody to do some developing and fix at least some of the game compatibility issues.  Any ideas on this would be awesome, but that would be another project altogether, and in the meantime, I will certainly just get a new box and use that one for my games and my faster box for my media server/Windows/whatever else would need the extra power.  Anywho, once again, glad to see the progress and updates here.

Regards,
  -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 10, 2004, 04:31:27 PM

i thought this site might be helpfull,http://www.xfactordev.net/




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 13, 2004, 02:22:23 AM

i was just thinking,we need a name for this project,how about WinBox or Windox?




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 13, 2004, 06:16:02 AM

yea winbox is alright good enough for me.. wink.gif  




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 13, 2004, 12:11:50 PM

Agreed, I like winbox




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 13, 2004, 06:23:57 PM

i dont if it matters but winbox is allready taken,                                        WINBOX email client,http://www.winbox.com/




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: djdafreund on October 13, 2004, 10:57:09 PM

How bout just using 'Xindows"?? That's kinda catchy anyway. Or maybe even "Xbindows"




Edited by djdafreund, 14 October 2004 - 06:57 AM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 14, 2004, 01:32:55 AM

Well I guess Winbox is out of the question then, Xindows is also already taken by a group that is VERY SECRETIVELY working to get Windows running on the Xbox.  I don't know we are going to have to come up with a name for it sooner or later, any other ideas?

With the latest news on the media center extender for the Xbox it is going to be interesting to see exactly what comes out of that whole deal.  Maybe M$ will actually provide some answers in their own release of that software.....unless we beat them to it.  Unfortunately I would imagine it will be nothing more than a frontend to MCE because of the fact that M$ will obviously not support upgraded hard drives.  The only reason I am even suggesting that they may actually give us some answers with this software is that it will undoubtedly have to utilize some form of bootloader embedded into the .xbe file.  Unless of course their goal is to take the focus from XBMC and attempt to profit off of their work.  After all, XBMC can already be set up to work as a frontend to MCE, just not the way I would imagine M$ doing it.  Who knows, I guess we will have to see what happens and cross that bridge when the time comes.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 14, 2004, 05:40:27 PM

how about, windbox,osbox,windobox,billgbox(LOL!),xpbox,winntbox,fatx-os-box,pcbox ?




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 14, 2004, 06:40:44 PM

xbox controller driver for windows,http://www.redcl0ud.com/xbcd.html




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: ravenous on October 15, 2004, 01:00:41 PM

  How about WinOsBox - "WOB for short" I was wondering if there is anything I can do to help guys.. I kn ow nothing about coding, but I am fluent in 3d modeling and graffix.... I really love the idea of getting any version of WinOs to run smoothly on xbox without the need of an emulator. Email me : Humanracereject@yahoo.com




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: ravenous on October 15, 2004, 01:02:29 PM

Or you could try WinXBE.... just my 2 cents smile.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 15, 2004, 01:29:17 PM

WinXBE is nice, is that name already taken betaluva?




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: ravenous on October 15, 2004, 01:47:35 PM

I did a google search and few others with bbb and nothing about a WinXBE smile.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 15, 2004, 05:05:10 PM

Good to hear, WinXBE it is then




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 15, 2004, 07:31:58 PM

WOO-HOO!  ,WinXBE RULEZ. laugh.gif  




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 16, 2004, 08:30:21 AM

alright enough about the name.. we have to do some more research.. can everyone state where they are at in terms of research and what they are doing as part of the project right now??.. im researching the boot process of all the os's up to win2000.. just to see exactly what we can manipulate once the bios can boot windows... has anyone talked to any bios programmers?? is there any progress what so ever??




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 18, 2004, 08:09:44 AM

i'm back finally! no one on my trip wanted to give this a try sad.gif most of the time i got responses like "the xbox is for kids" or "use your computer". a bunch of idiots.

as for fires request i'm researching the boot process also but i use embedded on an old nforce board i had laying around. other than that i'm looking over the bios codes from cromwell and award. maybe there's a way to inject the code for booting from a dvd-rom into cromwell.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 18, 2004, 11:44:43 AM

Welcome back Scan-C, hope everything went well on your trip.  Things have been pretty slow this past week as you can see, but just so you know we decided on a project name while you were away, WinXBE.  It's kinda catchy and a suitable title.  Well, keep us posted on your findings, same with you fire.  I am doing my research on boot processes, alternative methods to boot, etc.  I am also trying to find a few more coders to join the team.
Regards,
  -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Code-X on October 18, 2004, 12:00:10 PM

I think a look at ReactOS could help,
http://www.reactos.com/ (http://www.reactos.com/)

EDIT:
Found some extra stuff about bottin etc.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Boot_sequence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_sequence)

I'm wondering if we can get Cromwell to load NTLdr then go from there.




Edited by Code-X, 18 October 2004 - 08:17 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 19, 2004, 09:03:09 PM

guess what i just found amongst my files, the windows 2000 bootstraper that has been disassembled!,if anyone wants it pm me a email address and i will send it to you.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 22, 2004, 11:30:09 PM

alright people.. i just came up with an idea that could be either brilliant.. or fricken stupid and someone smack me with a wet beaver tail alright...

is there any way we can build an xbox app that will let us log onto another computer.. like remote desktop?? or even through linux wouldn't be that bad and better performance then getting it to run on the xbox... if we could make an app somehow that could use remote desktop to take control of an xp pro machine in ur house then it would be the same thing as running windows practically just faster.... i dunno i might be thinking stupid.. its late and my brains barely functioning.. so i cant even think of what to do to make this possible or not... but running a little program like remote desktop client off ur xbox.. instead of windows xp professional.. would obsiously take alot less system resourses!




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: nagmine on October 22, 2004, 11:39:50 PM

Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 22, 2004, 11:48:35 PM

Yea definately scrap the remote desktop idea, that totally defeats the purpose here.  Like already stated if thats how you want to run it just get a new video card.  I am waiting on Scan-C to get back with me, and then this thread should be moving again.  We are going to look at the bootstrap betaluva gave to us and see if we can get it to the point where we can actually get to the pci scans that are standing in our way.  This is going to take some serious work and as of now Scan is the only real programmer on the team, so if you can code, and want to get involved, we need you.  Just send a pm and we will get up to date on whats going on.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: fire2501 on October 23, 2004, 07:39:52 AM

no what i mean is it would be practically the same thing.. it would look like ur running windows but ur not, and u could still go on the net and everything... im just asking if its possible, not if we should do it or not.. i still highly agree with getting windows running on the box itself. wink.gif  




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 23, 2004, 12:58:50 PM

you can easily do that with vnc. the server on the xp machine and client in linux on xbox but that isn't anywhere near what we want to do.

h8raid please send me the disassembled bootstrap. work is still keeping me busy but i'll take my breaks to look over the code.

someone mentioned loading ntldr through cromwell. i tried that and cromwell froze up.

but there is some light here. i got one of my teammates involved in this and we wrote a bootloader which in fact loaded the xpe kernel. it freezes and doesn't execute the kernel but it's a start. i hope i can get the source on monday. will post it asap.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 25, 2004, 05:11:38 PM

i was just thinking,if we cant get windows to work on the xbox then maybe we could try react-os instead!, its open source,it should be easyer to compile/decompile,it should need less resources to run,there is even a live cd version(knoppix style),what do you think?i have extracted the bootloader from the iso,i can email it anyone wants it.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 25, 2004, 06:10:57 PM

ok,i emailed brian-p and he has given us permission to create a custom version of freeloader if we want to,the only catch is if we create a custom version we have to share the code with brian,i have also emailed jason filby,RE a custom version of react-os,i have not got a reply yet.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 25, 2004, 09:13:38 PM

reactos looks nice but isn't really functional right now. nearly every loaded win32 executable kills the system. but it can't hurt to have more os's running biggrin.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Supplicium on October 27, 2004, 06:45:11 AM

if you need a website done and/or hosted i have mad webspace with a free domain register to kill so PM me if your interested. I can help with images and lil shit like that, this bios coding is over my head but if you ever get windows goin i can help a lil more in coding.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: h8raid on October 27, 2004, 10:05:54 AM

Sorry I havent been around in about a week, had some computer issues but I am back up now.  Roadrunner screwed me so yea, internet was down for a week.   Anyways, Scan-C, pm me with your email so I can send you the disassembled bootloader.  Glad to hear you guys are making progress, so do you guys think we are ready to take Supplicium up on his offer for a site, or should we wait until we can document some things with screenies so we can show people that this project is going to be successful?  Let me know what you guys want to do, personally, I think we should start a layout of the site, and get things ready to go, but wait to launch because it doesn't look like we are too far off from some real progress.  Good work everybody!
Regards,
  -H8raid




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on October 27, 2004, 11:10:18 AM

yup this way if we need it the layout is there. i would like a php news section for everybody on the team to add news.

couldn't get the source for now. this guy is everywhere but not on his desk laugh.gif

h8raid you have pm




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: TSOPrano on October 27, 2004, 11:29:02 AM

Can't wait you guys smile.gif

If you need beta/bug tester I have a few Xbox's to spare that can be used for more dangerous things.

beerchug.gif  




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Code-X on October 27, 2004, 02:30:20 PM

I think we should get a small site up with atleast the code we have so far, so people don't have to keep e-mailing eachother. Maybe a SourceForge page for now.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: betaluva on October 27, 2004, 03:24:12 PM

having our own site would be COOL!, i say yes.




Edited by betaluva, 27 October 2004 - 11:25 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: chimpanzee on May 14, 2005, 03:30:16 AM

For those who are so fond of XPE, you do know that there would be some licensing requirement that will never make it possible on Xbox, don't you ? Either MS would simply deny you from distributing it or the royalty would be too high for 'amateurs' I saw here ;-)






Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 14, 2005, 08:46:11 PM

There IS a Timebombed version, and a beta which I doubt has a timebomb. Both are perfectly ok to distrobute from what I've heard.

It's legaler than those hacked up M$ bioses (of which I think most bioses are), and the XDK compiled files that aren't supposed to be distrobuted without M$'s consent.




Edited by netdroid9, 15 May 2005 - 04:51 AM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Shadow7789 on May 16, 2005, 06:19:16 AM

I am really sick of waiting.  Xbox 360 is comming out this year.  You guys should just do whatever will be ready the soonest.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: tfgbd on May 19, 2005, 11:19:52 PM

If there were legal issues in relation to distributing the full XP Embedded OS, the author could always just distribute the Target Designer project file and simply include download and build instructions to make it easier for end users to set up.   It shouldn't take anymore than a few minutes to generate the OS image build and has the added benefit of letting the end user add some optional components they may wish to use....

XPe should also work fine in an emulator like QEMU if you want to try, though its just not the same... sad.gif

Oh, and Pocket PCs are built on "Windows CE", not XP.
Also, there is no such thing as "Windows CE Embedded."  Its always embedded anyway because its designed as an Embedded OS.  tongue.gif






Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: chimpanzee on May 23, 2005, 09:26:24 PM

QUOTE(tfgbd @ May 20 2005, 08:30 AM)
If there were legal issues in relation to distributing the full XP Embedded OS, the author could always just distribute the Target Designer project file and simply include download and build instructions to make it easier for end users to set up.   It shouldn't take anymore than a few minutes to generate the OS image build and has the added benefit of letting the end user add some optional components they may wish to use....



XPe should also work fine in an emulator like QEMU if you want to try, though its just not the same... sad.gif



Oh, and Pocket PCs are built on "Windows CE", not XP.

Also, there is no such thing as "Windows CE Embedded."  Its always embedded anyway because its designed as an Embedded OS.  tongue.gif

View Post






Interesting perspective. I thought building OS are for geeks and people asking for Windows on Xbox seems to be not in that camp. BTW, what you are saying is that XPE is effectively FREE so long I don't mind building the OS ? Hard to believe as assuming that I am a mid to large size corp, I can do what you said and popular all my desktop with tailor made XP(like a customized distro in linux term) and save hundreds of K(if not millions) per year license fee ?






Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 24, 2005, 05:13:56 AM

Of course, there is the matter of the 120 day TIMEBOMB, chimpanzee.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 24, 2005, 03:09:58 PM

QUOTE(Slipknot01 @ May 11 2005, 10:30 PM)
will this be possible to use without a gamepad & just a controller?



-Slipknot01

View Post






Question still not answered....   dry.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: chimpanzee on May 24, 2005, 11:56:49 PM

QUOTE(netdroid9 @ May 24 2005, 02:24 PM)
Of course, there is the matter of the 120 day TIMEBOMB, chimpanzee.

View Post






I see. So the users of this phentom XPE on Xbox release just need to rebuild it every 120 days, that sounds like a nice solution ;-)




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: netdroid9 on May 25, 2005, 01:59:29 AM

QUOTE(Slipknot01 @ May 25 2005, 09:20 AM)
Question still not answered....   dry.gif

View Post






*Sigh*



Yes, just use the XBCD drivers, and the ControlMK software from the same place.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Slipknot01 on May 25, 2005, 01:24:05 PM

usual placeq?




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: _Sorcerer_ on August 28, 2005, 05:00:53 AM

Hey!
I thought that I can help you out with coding, if needed. So if you are trying port Windows XP for XBox I am in. But only for make a chalange, because I think linux is better on XBox than WinXP, although XBox kernel is someting like Windows 2000 kernel, so there is posibilities that that one is going to work. dry.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: the_devil73 on August 28, 2005, 10:00:47 AM

no one is in this forum anymore man, its been dead for a while. I lay flowers on it grave every once in a while, but no one is here nemore. Better look at mac osx for the xbox 360





Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Cio on October 05, 2005, 01:07:19 PM

It's not dead jet.. just in a coma. Once all hope is lost, the plug will be pulled. Untill then, there's qemu.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: sick_mate_xbox on November 02, 2005, 10:00:51 PM

i wonder how that ReactOS port for the xbox is going.. i hope that comes along. havent seen updates on it for a while yet..




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: The_Chemist187 on January 11, 2006, 10:19:14 PM

Im confused.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: edude03 on January 25, 2006, 02:03:54 PM

Hmmm... some one will probably beat me up for this, but has anyone seen www.linuxbios.org ? the is a section on that site about running other operation systems after linux boots.... something about using a glue layer called ADLO (iirc) maybe we can borrow ::steal:: some of there code :-P

Ok i'll go get my casket ready
Michael




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: nt authority on February 23, 2006, 12:26:45 AM

WINDOWS SOURCE CODE FOR BOTH NT4 AND WIN2K BUILDS WERE LEAKED.

Considering the massive knowledge base and amount of applications and hardware devices created to exploit the xbox system this source code can most definitley be used to create a full version of windows for the xbox that can be installed in a native, proper, and full fashion that is truly complete.

Has anyone considered these methods, resources, concepts ???

(1) Build a full Xbox Native Windows from the ground up: Using leaked Windows 2000 Source Code with the missing "non-leaked" components substituted with the relative parts from

(A) leaked Windows NT4 {this has boot code and kernel initialization code in \nt\private\ntos\private\boot\ and \nt\private\ntos\init\ which would allow for the construction of an XBOX specific NTLDR/OSLOADER.EXE and/or NTOSKRNL.EXE

( REACTOS source code: the REACTOS avenue appears great as it already has a Hardware Abstraction Layer with custom code for the XBOX.

(2) Windows CE.NET source code, samples, and binary image building - Dependent on the CE .NET framework to a large extent it nevertheless provides an execellent resource especially when it comes to the construction of pre-kernel (and as such pre WinCE) executions such as those that occur in the hardware enumerating OEM ADAPTION LAYER during boot: a DEFAULT.XBE boot loader has already been constructed for the XBOX and a WinCE NK.NB0 image has been released. Modification to WinCE source code, specifically to the XBOX WinCE image mentioned above (that already works) could lead us somewhere.

By injecting leaked NT/WIN2K code, BIOS/x86 Emulation code such as Bochs, and possibly code from the EFI firmware interface released from INTEL, one could create a glorified superBIOS: This would be a WinCE OS perhaps residing on a LPC module like normal modchips and would allow execution of a normal PC windows setup program (unmodified). This is quite a complex idea but essentially works by creating an intermediate layer between the XBOX and Windows and thus makes Windows think it is installing itself on a PC instead of an XBOX.

(3) Create a BIOS PE FILE to replace XBOXKRNL.EXE then package it up under CABinet protocol and insert it back into the BIOS BOOT ROM so that it is unpacked upon POST.

Obviously we would rebuild NTOSKRNL.EXE using leaked code, rename it as XBOXKRNL.EXE, reseal it with appropriate cryptography and compression and then flash it into the region where the XBOX exepcts such to be.

This would then expect a HAL and Device Drivers as well as a Session Manager Sub-System and further programs at least up to the Winlogon.exe point where a system boot officially comes to an end.






Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Spartan-048 on April 04, 2006, 04:00:56 PM


You know, this bring me back to a thread I made... ( http://forums.xbox-s...howtopic=502787 ). If this could work, I'd definetly use it on the project were working on. Good luck to you guys smile.gif . Hmm... I'd also have to run to and fro on the wikipedia to really get into what you guys are talking about sad.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: ferjero989 on April 26, 2006, 09:53:48 PM

mmm... i've reading this from the very begining.. and.. well.. i would like to say some things
1- the challenge was to run a windows on the xbox. selected ONE win98... i agree
2- some ppl tried to talk about wince and winxpe.. ok.. its easier BUT THATS NOT THE F** THREAD ABOUT
i vote to use win98 se. i tried all windows versions in my pc already... with a huge hard drive and up to 5 boots (win95, win98se, winme, win2k and winxp) so.. i can say i was running all at once..
was a pentium 550 slot 1, with 448 megs, 16 megs nvidia riva tnt and a sound blaster live. everything was fine.. BUT... winME sucks BIG TIME.... win2k... takes WAY TO MORE to load up. winXP is ok.. win98SE was amazing (just dont load up ie6.2). win95.. well.. kinda limited...
i vote to continue the proyect with the win98se... and those assholes talking about using winxpe and all that... shut up and open a new thread about running winxpe in the xbox...




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on April 27, 2006, 03:43:30 AM

In case you'd missed the actual point of the discussion - running any version of Windows (other than CE, which is not the same OS but merely shares a name and the general API design) on the Xbox without using emulation will require some tricky binary patching that is well outside the capability of almost everyone who is interested. Getting 98 to run would likely be *more* difficult than getting 2000/XP to run, because consumer Windows has a much less well designed kernel with a poorer hardware abstraction - it would likely need to be modified quite significantly. Getting an NT-based Windows to run would likely only require boot-time modifications as the hardware abstraction layer is far more complete.

Either way the chances of anyone actually doing it are pretty tiny. It's extremely hard to do without the source code, and those who have the source legitimately are not allowed to tell (Shared Source licencing for Windows requires a non-disclosure agreement, which is my position).




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: thepureamrit on November 21, 2006, 05:08:58 PM

Ahhh,

Allow me to introduce my self. I am The Pure Amrit. When I first read this topic, I knew this was right for me. I am a Windows Geek. I have been reading this article since the begining. The thought of running Windows PE on an XBOX is not bad. I do not know if someone had suguested Bart PE (http://www.nu2.nu/), but it can work. In Bart PE, you can create plugins for Windows XP (OR 2003) and modify the whole OS. In my (worthless) ammount of experiance, I believe that Windows 2003, and Windows CE will be the bet choice for the XBOX. Shure, it is possiable that you can make drivers for the XBOX. The Dashboard (and the rest of the xbox software) is only a modified version of the Windows 2000 Kernel (and Direct X). If That Helps Out At All, I Would Like To Know.

thanks

~The Pure Amrit

P.S.

If The XBOX is only Windows 2000, There is still hope for Windows XP... ( wink.gif  wink.gif ,Hint Hint)




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on November 22, 2006, 03:28:41 AM

In Bart PE, you can create plugins for Windows XP (OR 2003) and modify the whole OS.

Those are just convenient ways to include/exclude particular files, they don't patch OS files.

QUOTE

The Dashboard (and the rest of the xbox software) is only a modified version of the Windows 2000 Kernel (and Direct X). If That Helps Out At All, I Would Like To Know.

Nope. The Xbox kernel is not in any way useful to run Windows - it's not compatible in any way with the NT kernels, even though it's derived from them (the most fundamental issue: NT syscalls take wide Unicode strings, Xbox syscalls take ASCII, so all string-based APIs are immediately incompatible).

Running Windows on the Xbox would have to work the same way as Linux - a loader replaces the existing kernel with something else.




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: nathan24 on January 27, 2007, 02:00:33 PM

i am trying to get into windows 98 through xdsl but when i click on aterminal the windows 98 bootscreen comes up then a blackscreen with sum writing come up tahat says cd-rom device driver for ide(fourchannels supported.)Copyright oak technology inc.1993-1996.Driver version:V340. Device name:Tomato.Transfer Mode:Programmed 1/0.Drve0:   Port=170.(secondary channel).Master        IRQ=15.Firmware version :0.6

Ex version 2.25. Copyright © Microsoft Corp.1986-1995.All right reserved.Drive 6  Driver TOMATO unit 0.
i installed xdsl by ftp if that helps.    

Thanks




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: jake09071990 on March 17, 2007, 10:51:10 AM

Ok well i only read the first post and had an i dea pop into my head. pop.gif Well we can make windows not make the check by using nlite to modify the instalation disk.  i have done this at least 10 times before and it can take out almost all of the minimum system requirements that are on the install disk.

Just thought this would help alot.

This is to modify windows XP only.




Edited by jake09071990, 17 March 2007 - 06:52 PM.


Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: Scan-C on April 24, 2007, 01:23:02 PM

Oh WOW! This thread is still alive and a sticky? O_O I was away a long time I know and I got a lot of PM's asking for the source...
I didn't read everything til my last post but I'm sorry to say the source and binarys are lost. I got into some situation which stopped me from working on the code and visit these forums...
Well, I think Windows on the XBOX is still something we should try to archive and I would really like to get a project starting but this isn't as easy as using nlite. It needs patching of binary files and rewriting alot of Win32-Functions used at boottime.
I will need some time to get into all this again. I just tried to replace my Dashboard and, believe it or not, I couldn't remember how to name the xbe.

If someone knowing assembler wants to help, look over the files ntldr and kernel32.dll and try to understand it's basic inner workings. That's where patches need to be applied.
I'll be off know but I'm happy to be here again. The community seems to be as polite and friendly as ever.

Cya




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: PunMaster on May 06, 2007, 04:37:53 PM

Hey. I've been looking at all the forums about running Windows natively on the Xbox and have become very interested.  smile.gif  I have a ton of questions but would love to help if I can! First of all, it seems as if the latest piece of working code, the CE .NET thing, is quite old but looks very promising. What the heck happened to that? How could a project that cool just die? Am I missing something? Secondly, What's the current focus? I've heard of a lot of different ways people are trying to get various versions of Windows running on the Xbox. Which ideas are still being actively perused? Lastly, what do I need to do to get involved? I am good with assembly, C++, and C# .NET. I also know a lot about windows and the Xbox hardware. I would love to be a part of this, but as of now I am pretty confused about where the Xbox Windows endeavor is going. Thanks!  biggrin.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: hellknight on March 10, 2008, 10:19:23 AM

It going no where sadly and I doubt with the 360 out that it will go any further then its death I hate saying it but this community and completely died since 360 came out and modding 360's isn't even that great and offers us nothing at the moment in the way of homebrew or anything like that so I really don't see or understand why 360 is slowly killing the xbox scene




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on March 10, 2008, 12:15:24 PM

It going no where sadly and I doubt with the 360 out that it will go any further then its death I hate saying it but this community and completely died since 360 came out and modding 360's isn't even that great and offers us nothing at the moment in the way of homebrew or anything like that so I really don't see or understand why 360 is slowly killing the xbox scene

The post you're replying to is over a year old, you know smile.gif

The 360 isn't responsible for the idea of running Windows on the Xbox dying - it died because if you're happy running it under a virtualizer then it works, and there are pretty detailed instructions on how to do it - and if you want to run it natively it requires huge amounts of very difficult effort (as I detailed for a number of people for quite a while).

Quite simply there's nothing to do smile.gif




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: hellknight on March 11, 2008, 05:16:03 PM

I know its a year old but it is stickied so im not necroing it the scene in whole seems to be slowly dying not just this thread whereas the 360 threads seem to be booming I wouldn't mind seeing a post now and then about the progress (if any) to running windows on the xbox but Im sure there isn't any anymore now I feel like a fool saying anything




Title: Get It Running Efficiently!
Post by: torne on March 12, 2008, 04:45:16 AM

There hasn't been any progress running windows natively on the xbox *ever*. Nobody has done anything at all.

It's too hard for too little reward.




Title: NULL
Post by: 'darkhanzou26' on March 13, 2008, 05:28:01 PM
'
               Just a suggestion? (I don't know nearly enough about programming as I should) but I know that out there on the net is a CD called 'XP Live' (which is used on the computer to boot to an alternative on-CD OS for repairs) which has a windows/linux kernel that may do the trick for testing and programming. Just a suggestion (not looking to get flamed)
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'torne' on March 14, 2008, 04:23:14 AM
'
               Running XP from a livecd is nothing to do with linux, just requires some PE magic (google BartPE and similar). Doesn't help tackle the fact that there's no NT bootloader that will work on the xbox, and that NT will crash when it looks around the xbox's PCI bus.

Sorry wink.gif
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'grimdoomer' on March 19, 2009, 06:16:05 PM
'
               Is this project still alive?
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'torne' on March 20, 2009, 05:37:00 AM
'
               What project? Nobody with a clue what they're doing ever started anything. There is no project smile.gif

If you poke through this thread and the rest of this forum looking for my posts you'll find my debunking of why various ideas are dumb, and an explanation of what would actually be required to make Windows run natively. It's a gargantuan amount of effort. Nobody with the required skills cares that much.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'grimdoomer' on March 20, 2009, 01:03:59 PM
'
               Well it gave me an idea that I'm working on. Instead of port a OS that we don't have source for, and that would have countless issues, why not make a new OS for the xbox? The xbox already has APIs for mice and keyboards as well as anything else we would want. Well I decided to do something like this. I call it Carbon. So far I have support for mice and I'm working on creating windows that are dragable. I know it wont run anything from windows, but if we could get it to launch games, apps etc in the windows, it would be really neat. Even a desktop like system that you can launch apps and games from would be cool.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'Nextelhalo' on May 07, 2009, 11:25:59 AM
'
               Man that would be cool as hell. I'll fully support you on this, i know nothing about creating this but anything i can do to help i will. I would love to see something like this created.

Man that would be cool as hell. I'll fully support you on this, i know nothing about creating this but anything i can do to help i will. I would love to see something like this created.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'hellknight' on August 12, 2009, 09:41:07 PM
'
               Hey any progress on that OS you were working on, I really think it would be cool but as far as I know the xbox can only run one kernal so would it even be possible to run a game or app in a window?
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'osmorphyus' on August 21, 2009, 04:10:01 PM
'
               on this carbon thing...  could you run WINE from it?

i know that might make you think of 'just another linux port', but wine is pretty good on different platforms at running windows based software.

ultimately your going to have to enable the NIC.  sounds cool tho.  toss some screenshots sometime of your work.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'WindowsOCManage' on October 13, 2009, 06:01:01 AM
'
               
QUOTE(h8raid @ Sep 24 2004, 08:46 AM)  

"There's no source code for Windows.  It has to not address some areas of the ram because this locks up the Xbox, and it has to not scan the pci bus otherwise, lockup.  These are the major problems with Windows.  Another thing are the drivers, there are none.  The people who have Windows running use it through Bochs or Linux with VMWare.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but it will be hard and without source code you will need a way to readdress the ramparts and stop the pci buxs scan.  It's exactly the part where I am with my FreeDOS port.  I'm just lacking the programming skills, but I'm learning right now biggrin.gif at least FreeDOS is open source so I can rewrite it.  A bios would be pretty complicated, but maybe load a program into memory that does this [forces the checks to pass] before the actual Windows bootloader kicks in.  What I mean is some kind of a layer between hardware and Windows.  I'm not experienced enough to write such code, but I think it should be possible." ~ Scan-C


Exactly what memory region should we not access?

               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'torne' on October 13, 2009, 09:17:05 AM
'
               Read the xbox-linux patches.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'BuraddoX' on February 18, 2011, 04:25:37 PM
'
               You's need to still work on this it sounds like a awesome idea happy.gif
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'tomegtt' on July 30, 2011, 03:10:43 AM
'
               HELP HELP HELP!!!!!!!!!!!I'm sorry my Office 2007 can't open files and the office 2010 too,I don't know what happend to my computers,and all the datas in files can't open it, the information about coach handbags,quad,motorcyle,guitar,the price the quantity,all messed up.
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'luther349' on August 16, 2011, 04:17:24 PM
'
               yea xbox has its os that's linux but nobody has worked on it in years. so its so out of date its sad. i wish the guys that did the linux work would come back for a bit update all your drivers fatx etc for kernel 3 etc. the old ass version of wine xbox linux runs is suck and fail compared to the new versions that will run abought anything.
               
               

               


                     Edited by luther349, 17 August 2011 - 12:18 AM.
                     
                  


            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'edwardrich01' on September 19, 2011, 10:56:28 PM
'
               where can i get this windows software..
               
               

               
            '
Title: NULL
Post by: 'jaroc' on October 24, 2011, 10:50:00 PM
'
               
QUOTE(tomegtt @ Jul 30 2011, 05:10 AM)  

HELP HELP HELP!!!!!!!!!!!I'm sorry my Office 2007 can't open files and the office 2010 too,I don't know what happend to my computers,and all the datas in files can't open it, the information about coach handbags,quad,motorcyle,guitar,the price the quantity,all messed up.

Put the pipe down
               
               

               
            '