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Author Topic: EurAsia interview with the xKey developer  (Read 894 times)

'Will-am-I'

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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2011, 08:18:55 AM »

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QUOTE(Jagosix @ Jul 2 2011, 01:33 PM) View Post

Hello Fellow Gamers smile.gif. If timing is an issue, why not just install the game to the hardrive and run it from there? I mean the X360 currently has that ability without the xkey? Wouldn't that also change the timing response? It cuts the load time way down.



The drive still gets challenged. Thats why you have to keep the disc in.
               
               

               
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'ruciz'

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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2011, 08:29:30 AM »

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               well, IIRC, emulating satellite cards worked great. As long as you kept the emulator up to date it would emulate using the real card to answer challenge/responses, and patch the tiers and timezones and all that into the 'emulated' image. This was not affected by any 'checks' as it returned the correct values, using the stock hardaware.
Flashing the satellite cards would require blockers which then prevented the cards from updating to the new keys which means it would stop working.

Satellite comms is ONE-WAY!  Xbox live is 2-way comms.

So looking at it from that perspective, emulation works great and is BETTER than attempting to optimize code to run on a hardware platform and inject hooks or additional data without screwing the clock cycles up..
But with that said, there were 4 types of emulation and only ONE would ever survive the wrath of EMM attempts, and would update its virtual image to comply. If the X360Key team can manage this, now that MS has shown it can reflash almost all dvd drives, it may be a huge selling point and proof of future support. Unlike that of previously abandoned projects like the WODE.

In the nfo released for the 9504 drives, it states that C4E installed a rootkit to just 'not answer' as the questions were open-ended, without an absolute response value that LT could determine.

This would make me think if he didn't answer the drive 'timed-out' on the said challenge and would likely set or send a flag to the console, which the rootkit likely prevented, and sent an 'its OK' status.

This is just my assumption, If this emuation device is correctly coded MS will not be able to detect it. Either way it seems like the X360Key can't dump the drive firmwares (which is dumb) as it should have a built-in check to dump the firmware and compare it to the 'what im gonna use' firmware to ensure MS didn't update it.

I also presume MS won't ban consoles anymore, but rather make discs stop working and reflash DVD drives to stop playing backups. They don't make much on the consoles but do on Live and DLC, which modded systems still need to pay for and is direct profit for MS. Pissing off a would-be modder by making them constantly reburn discs and reflash drives is better than forcing them to buy another console which they could then use online and their 'banned' one offline...
               
               

               
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'mputten'

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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2011, 08:30:48 AM »

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               Seems to be that Xkey gonna be safer than ixtreme. But at launch x360key is not live save at all.

Furthermore: Wode Jukebox is not from Pegaxy! But the main developer behind Wode is now with pegaxy (pegaxy from wiikey 2 etc.)

IPB Image
               
               

               


                     Edited by mputten, 02 July 2011 - 04:48 PM.
                     
                  


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'Vrtclhykr'

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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2011, 09:24:47 AM »

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               pv3nomq says:

QUOTE
Impressive, BUT.... show me LIVE safe, and I'll show my money


I say: You are an idiot.

These teams finally work on a project that allows HD play without a JTAG machine and idiots like you can only complain.  I recommend you keep your money because you need it for an education.
               
               

               
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'Reaper527'

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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2011, 11:03:42 AM »

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QUOTE(Vrtclhykr @ Jul 2 2011, 12:24 PM) View Post

pv3nomq says:
I say: You are an idiot.

These teams finally work on a project that allows HD play without a JTAG machine and idiots like you can only complain.  I recommend you keep your money because you need it for an education.


no, i think he has a valid point. the detectability of this device is an issue that we will have to wait and see on. microsoft has in the past proven that they have no problem with blocking 3rd party products at the console level. just look at the datel fiasco a few years ago.

if microsoft DOES detect that a console is using one of these devices, what will they do? will they simply ban the console, or will they implement something in a future dash/kernel update to prevent booting from it, rending the device as a paperweight?

no one will know how well this device will work long term until the product is released and we see what microsoft can do about it.
               
               

               
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'd4f'

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« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2011, 11:06:49 AM »

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QUOTE
I also presume MS won't ban consoles anymore, but rather make discs stop working and reflash DVD drives to stop playing backups.

This would imply that write-locked drives can be unlocked again.

Furthermore it's dangerous to flash DVD drives since they can simply bad-flash. Due to it not being user-caused, customers could complain and ask for a replacement, ultimately causing Microsoft yet again more costs.
(This is based on the assumption that MS has not hidden any non-breakable bootloader with firmware-flashing capability in the drive which they apparently have not.)

If xKey is any demonstration of the scene's development capability, I wonder how long it will take before somebody produces a motherboard clone with full binary-compatibility but no hardware lockdown wink.gif

QUOTE
or will they implement something in a future dash/kernel update to prevent booting from it, rending the device as a paperweight?

They would have to check it on every boot, since they are not allowed to willingly render the console useless for it's main purpose(s) by law. If xKey really is fully updatable as they claim and it's FPGA / ARM provides enough horse power, I don't see how they couldn't eventually get the console to be fooled for some time  - until the next update.
               
               

               


                     Edited by d4f, 02 July 2011 - 07:10 PM.
                     
                  


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'Midnight Tboy'

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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2011, 12:45:13 PM »

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               so has it been said then that isos are needed?

Ideally would be much preferable if extracted isos where allowed, or even GOD or reconstructed smaller isos from the extracted files?  Suppose that would all depend though on if the device relied on random padding data etc to be there.

If it did allow god,extracted files mind.....and it needs to send an ss.bin etc then I guess that could also be remedied by the extracted game having a subfolder which holds that info
               
               

               
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'kiltear'

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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2011, 01:04:51 PM »

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QUOTE(CelerionQ @ Jul 2 2011, 07:22 AM) View Post

It's only a problem for slims - and as you should know MS doesn't ban right away. You get flagged first and than banned in a big wave.


I believe it's hard for Microsoft to ban again. Here's the reasons.

1. Microsoft get nothing out of banning consoles (no incentives of banning consoles)
2. Street will be flooded with ban consoles.
3. Hacker just sell their ban console on craiglist and buy a new one. (now that there is a replacement board from team-xecuter)

I think MS will think twice before they ban again. They will compare the benefits vs negatives.
If they want to win this battle, they should make it harder for the hackers to get online or make it harder for the games to load like the ap25 check or implement XGD3 disc format instead. That way they won't flood the street with ban consoles. In the end, hackers just buy another new console. So no benefit for MS to ban consoles.
               
               

               


                     Edited by kiltear, 02 July 2011 - 09:18 PM.
                     
                  


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'danthaman673'

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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2011, 01:48:03 PM »

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               Don't worry about this for the time being, As it seems PCB swapping is the go now(generally) for slims: We might well see effectively OC'd drive PCB's(for want of a better term ;-) to combat this issue, if in fact this does become an issue, in theory longer times can be caused by other issues such as heat and technically doesn't allow them to say definitively (in a way that would stand a class-action) that the console was being used for unlawful purposes. Just between you me an everyone else though: I reckon they have more ways to skin this cat, yet they will abstain for many reasons, many of them not so obvious. Yes they enjoy a temporary sales boost post-ban but there are many, many other things to consider.

I think this is a little irresponsible to be publishing this info (and transparent) at this time. I think they should not have taken large sums of money for a product that wasn't even in beta under the premise of 'pre-order' etc.. Without sharing the profits with those whoem have financed their R&D. I think they should release all their source after launch (before someone else does - or worse yet take the surprisingly little amount of time to desgin their own version; perhaps even one that runs 100% SW on a PC or similar eg; low-end embedded etc.... some of this exists already ;-) It's not like ppl at home will be able to build their own cheaper or better etc.. sure there will be the usual half-arsed knock-offs, but they will be there anyway, and ppl will pay the same attention to them as they would otherwise.

That said: Good on them for developing it, for those of us sceners who have been hinting that someone develop an emu for ages (some of which had to basically spell it out out-right) in the hope someone would run with it, so that it would be there, available before M$ pushed us into the corner that would make it a requirement (as a fall-back for that eventuality- perhaps a little premature??) ... An there it is! The catch '22' the  paradox of it all, and if I have to spell the rest-out then ....

Anwyayz, I try not to make a practice of 'spelling-things-out' like obvious shortcomings that M$ or others might exploit, there comes a time in every arms-race when one or both sides realise that it might not be in their best interests to keep pushing things to the next logical step continually... For every action .. etc... Sometimes it's better for all involved to slow things down a bit... And as an observer I try not to engage in myself... Anyway it's usually all been said before... Can't wait to check-out the wi-fi integration (That's something I didn't see coming, I like a surprise now and then ..)

Enough of my wall-of-text ramblings! Back to work!
               
               

               


                     Edited by danthaman673, 02 July 2011 - 09:52 PM.
                     
                  


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'klbarnes1'

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« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2011, 02:04:33 PM »

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               What the hell is that guy above me saying?  Someone please translate!
               
               

               
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'pif001'

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« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2011, 03:59:46 PM »

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QUOTE(klbarnes1 @ Jul 2 2011, 10:04 PM) View Post

What the hell is that guy above me saying?  Someone please translate!


Honestly I am not that sure. But I noticed that he was trying to say that he is a Scener, I am not sure what it means, but it could be related to homosexuality, or perhaps it means that he see things from a different perspective!!
               
               

               
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'OggyUK'

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« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2011, 06:25:57 PM »

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               FYI

He talks alot of shit
               
               

               
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'col12'

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« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2011, 07:57:25 PM »

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               calnt wait for this the weird thing happend to my  xbox when i turn it on it auto signs in to xbl gamer tag when i go to boot a game black screen every single game i own i was on for hours trying to fix it but if i disconected my ethernet cable the games worked fine but when i pluged in kinnect it freezez i had to boot games offline then sign in with xbl g tag for it to work well it turned out to be my hard drive was on its way out xbox.com support said when you keep playing your games from hd it eventualy causes problems like screen freezes and so on i can remember i was on the 360key channel and c4 was on saying wait something better coming around the same time so xecuter might make a clone and c4 can do his magic and make it xbl safe
               
               

               
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'trasixes'

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« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2011, 10:23:35 PM »

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QUOTE(Vrtclhykr @ Jul 2 2011, 09:24 AM) View Post

pv3nomq says:
I say: You are an idiot.

These teams finally work on a project that allows HD play without a JTAG machine and idiots like you can only complain.  I recommend you keep your money because you need it for an education.


It would be easy for me to declare you the actual idiot here, but your post seems to do that.

He didn't complain, and in fact complimented the project as "impressive".  If "live-safe" is what he wants in a product, then he is doing the developers of the Xkey a favor in letting them know what must be done to convince him to buy.

What did your post contribute? Nothing, not a damn thing. Troll.
               
               

               
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'rwcottrell'

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« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2011, 11:43:27 PM »

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QUOTE(rwcottrell @ Jul 2 2011, 02:18 AM) View Post

so if your already running say lt 1.9 you would have to flash back to stock to get this to work?

can anyone answer my question?i feel its pretty valid considering most people here are running some form of cfw.
               
               

               
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