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Author Topic: 360 Prone To Dma Exploits  (Read 199 times)

'Dameon'

  • Guest
NULL
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2005, 04:26:07 PM »

'
               Note that DMA transfers would only commence in the event that both the Xbox and storage device allowed it. DMA could be only enabled for "trusted" devices (*cough* spoof), not enabled at all, or perhaps restricted to a certain block of memory. Sure, DMA bypasses the CPU, but the USB controller on the Xbox has just as much control over the DMA operation as the external device.

Cross your fingers for an oversight.
               
               

               
            '
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'demonlord666000'

  • Guest
NULL
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2005, 06:29:57 PM »

'
               I have another big if but

what if since it won't let you read / write if it the thumb drive, ipod, ect. is too big how about 2 usb devices one to open DMA access to open read/write to the larger usb device.

If that were possible it would be much easier then trying to trick the usb controller into believeing the device is smaller then it is.
               
               

               
            '
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'atlanta800'

  • Guest
NULL
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2005, 11:45:21 PM »

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               After some of the things stated and especially the findings of Free60, I'm not seeing this as possible at all. With the Hypervisor doing checksums on the RAM, its going to be near impossible to get anything running without the hypervisor panicing and making your xbox 'splode.
               
               

               


                     Edited by atlanta800, 26 November 2005 - 08:46 AM.
                     
                  


            '
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'Redline99'

  • Guest
NULL
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2005, 12:46:18 PM »

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               Well, maybe the USB thing will go nowhere but I'll add my bit to it.

Usb Stack
               
               

               
            '
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'DaBiscuit'

  • Guest
NULL
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2005, 04:58:56 PM »

'
               
QUOTE(atlanta800 @ Nov 26 2005, 07:52 AM) View Post

After some of the things stated and especially the findings of Free60, I'm not seeing this as possible at all. With the Hypervisor doing checksums on the RAM, its going to be near impossible to get anything running without the hypervisor panicing and making your xbox 'splode.


This Hypervisor stuff is a joke, though, isn't it? That's just silly talk...
               
               

               
            '
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lordvader129

  • Guest
360 Prone To Dma Exploits
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2005, 08:13:05 AM »


This Hypervisor stuff is a joke, though, isn't it? That's just silly talk...

xbox-linux has alwayts been prone to hyperbole when it comes to stuff exploding (they said splitting your TSOP will cause the MCPX to explode, lol)

im certain the hypervisor will cause the 360 to crash, shut down or reboot if any checks fail

MS wouldnt make the hypervisor cause any permanent damage jus because some data failed a checksum, simple corruption can cause a check to fail, it may have nothign to do with a hack attempt




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TheSpecialist

  • Guest
360 Prone To Dma Exploits
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2005, 08:18:34 AM »


MS wouldnt make the hypervisor cause any permanent damage jus because some data failed a checksum, simple corruption can cause a check to fail, it may have nothign to do with a hack attempt


And even if they were 100% sure that it's a hack attempt, M$ isn't going to blow up your hardware, duh smile.gif




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sentinel0

  • Guest
360 Prone To Dma Exploits
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2005, 05:55:42 PM »


Not sure if any o you have read any of Bruce Schneier's work but he mentions dma exploit's are a weakness for any computer security.  it's almost like ghost threads that get processed.  I do dout that the dma will get exploited in the 360 but i do believe it possible to some extent to avoidthe hypervisor this way.




Edited by sentinel0, 04 December 2005 - 02:56 AM.


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DaBiscuit

  • Guest
360 Prone To Dma Exploits
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2005, 01:40:12 AM »


xbox-linux has alwayts been prone to hyperbole when it comes to stuff exploding (they said splitting your TSOP will cause the MCPX to explode, lol)

I see your point.  laugh.gif

QUOTE
I'm certain the hypervisor will cause the 360 to crash, shut down or reboot if any checks fail

MS wouldnt make the hypervisor cause any permanent damage jus because some data failed a checksum, simple corruption can cause a check to fail, it may have nothign to do with a hack attempt.

Yeah, that's the part I refuse to believe. All manner of bugs could cause the Hypervisor to panic, and even MS don't want the 360 going critical for no real reason...





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pez2k

  • Guest
360 Prone To Dma Exploits
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2005, 04:24:23 PM »


They are allowing us to boot one of their executable files off a cdr (for original xbox game capatability) so it seems it does not have any kind of media check.

The Dreamcast didn't have any special media check, and look what happened there.


It's more likely that the Xbox emulator update executable is simply signed to run from any media, rather than no signing at all on anything. If MS had wanted to, they could have released executables for the original Xbox that would run from any media, but there was no reason to. I'm pretty much 100% certain that all other 360 executables will be media signed.

The Dreamcast actually did have media checks, but the unfortunate oversight was that the accepted types were GD-ROM and CD-R. Sega eventually fixed it, but by then the console was already dying of piracy.




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